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Will FCX be around for a while?
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[Shane Ross] “Only Apple knows and they’ll never tell. […] NO one knows what they are doing…”
So I guess you’re implying that others do and have, i.e. you know exactly what they’re are up to and what their roadmaps are? Anyone here going to say “NLE xyz is most definitely going to be around and in active development in 10 years!” with a straight face? First and foremost Avid? How exactly is Apple the big exception here, other than for the sake of the usual argument and insinuations? As if neither Avid nor Adobe ever “killed” anything?? :-)))
[Shane Ross] “Apple did kill Shake, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro”
Actually, they didn’t in fact “kill” any of the above. They stopped development, yes, but all of them work just fine until today. Not even sure how one can say FCP of all things was killed, seeing that it’s still alive and doing very well. Shake, Soundtrack, even Color are still alive within FCP X, even if not in their full glory of yesteryear. Redeveloped? Reimagined? Sure. Just like e.g. Aperture was replaced by the redeveloped, reimagined Photo, which will ultimately become far more powerful than its predecessor.
And yes, Apple publicly stated their commitment to FCP for at least 10 years.
[Oliver Peters] “But one thing to consider, the bulk of FCPX users probably aren’t working editors and many aren’t even in actual production and post fields as we usually understand them.”
And still, whilst we’re on the subject of conjecture, even if those numbers may well be small compared to the overall user base, I’d say they still easily outnumber the ones that are with Avid. But then I’m guessing our understanding of what qualifies as “pro” or “actual production and post fields” is very different to begin with.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
Don’t get me started about this.
I spent two hours last night in the phone with a Producer/Editor friend just back from a shoot who wanted to “edit” on her long flight back home.
But as usual, they did at least half a dozen dumb things on the shoot that will make things harder for them to get to work fast. (Turn in poorly labeled finder copied shot files in folders each with 8 embedded audio tracks, only two of which are useful? Really?)
She’s in her first six months into X and still ALL she wanted to do was slap things into multi cams and start cutting away.
Over and over I had to pull her back into rejecting the 70% of the overall footage she’ll never need to see again – proper prep – disabling all the camera audio tracks to isolate the lavs – and setting up her Roles assignments properly.
For her “editing” has been exclusively what happens AFTER you get things in a timeline. In X, it’s ALSO how you prep for metadata flow.
More than anything else, for me this is why it’s usually easier to train newbies in X. You don’t waste all that time constantly saying “STOP – before you do what you’re used to doing – if you do THIS stuff first everything will work so much BETTER!”
Newbies X KNOW they need to learn things systematically. Old Pros just want you to show them how to do what they already KNOW how to do – the way they they want to keep doing it – using the new tools.
Yes, it’s unfair to some old school editors who adapt brilliantly to the new system. But it’s also a very real thing IME.Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “ALL she wanted to do was slap things into multi cams and start cutting away.”
Yes, how terrible to want to start editing right away, oh no, anything but that.
I can definitely see how X became the speed king.I’m just kidding here, you quite correct that proper up front prep will make everything faster later on.
But that goes for every editing system ever invented, up to and including learning the proper techniques for hanging your film in a bin.
I’m working on an article about video production that highlights the role of the script supervisor – the unheralded hero of post production. Not paying for an experienced script person is the surest way to go over budget in post that I know of.
And since it’s experienced editors, not newbies, that understand the importance of proper organization and preparation, I don’t see how this would be a hinderance to learning to work in X, but the key word in that opening phrase is “editor” – a producer is not an editor, no matter how many shows they’ve helmed, and pushing keys and making selects does not an editor make.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “How exactly is Apple the big exception here, other than for the sake of the usual argument and insinuations?”
The difference is that Apple is willing to drop a product that is successful and profitable at the height of its popularity. And without advance warning or a transition plan. Generally that’s not true of the others, because they are specifically in that business. Apple is not – at least not as the prime focus of its being.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” They stopped development, yes, but all of them work just fine until today”
They stopped development and stopped sales. They also removed existing unsold stock without notice. Then they rescinded that decision to allow limited sales for a while of the complete studio bundle only (no upgrades).
[Robin S. Kurz] ” Shake, Soundtrack, even Color are still alive within FCP X, even if not in their full glory of yesteryear. Redeveloped? Reimagined? Sure. “
And you say THAT with a straight face!
[Robin S. Kurz] “Just like e.g. Aperture was replaced by the redeveloped, reimagined Photo, which will ultimately become far more powerful than its predecessor.”
Not even close. Apple completely walked away from the professional photography market to focus on iPhone-based photography. They were there before Lightroom and more or less created a genre of software. Then they moved on to mainly consumers, because that’s where the numbers are.
[Robin S. Kurz] “And still, whilst we’re on the subject of conjecture, even if those numbers may well be small compared to the overall user base, I’d say they still easily outnumber the ones that are with Avid”
There’s little evidence of that in the real world. If anything, the numbers are with Adobe at this point, if you go by casual observation. In spite of all the lovely spotlights in FCPco and other sites showcasing facilities using FCPX, those are largely outliers still today.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bill Davis] “Over and over I had to pull her back into rejecting the 70% of the overall footage she’ll never need to see again – proper prep – disabling all the camera audio tracks to isolate the lavs – and setting up her Roles assignments properly. For her “editing” has been exclusively what happens AFTER you get things in a timeline. In X, it’s ALSO how you prep for metadata flow. “
There’s probably more to the story, but aren’t you simply supplanting one working method with another? After all, there’s little or no difference in time between – a) assigning favorites and rejects and then slapping the favs into a timeline to fine-tune, versus – b) slap everything into the timeline and cut out the garbage. Both processes take the same amount of time and both require that you review the footage.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “but aren’t you simply supplanting one working method with another? “
Telling people that X is a completely “new way of editing” is a pet peeve of mine. (what is a peeve anyway??) It’s not reinventing the process, as a editors we are doing the same thing in X as anything else. Watching the footage, making selects, organizing it all, and then cutting pieces together. As Herb pointed out, getting all your stuff organized and prepped to cut is something you need to do no matter what you’re cutting with, from flatbeds to an editing app on your phone. What X offers, IMO, is a different, and easier way of doing the same thing. The Browser, Collections, metadata goodies are great of course, but to me, the things that set X apart from everything else are:
The Timeline- being able to just cut stuff in and move clips around without any thought at all as to whether it will collide/overwrite/screw up anything that’s in your cut is a huge advantage.
Embedded Components- much easier to deal with than separate A/V. And you can of course separate these if you want.
Roles- Also huge, particularly for audio versioning, and I feel like there are some very powerful possibilities that remain untapped here.
Compound Clips- Nested clips on steroids, and also have some cool potential.
Motion Templates and Compressor Bundles- Create these in Motion and Compressor, load them into X, done. You can share them with other users who don’t have the apps which is very cool. Compressor bundles don’t get enough press IMO. Having the ability to make a preset where you can create a 2k, 1080p, 720p and SD version of a cut with a couple keystrokes in the NLE is very nice. You could do all that and also upload a cut to YouTube, Vimeo and Facebook at the same time. Whatever deliverables you need… 1 command, no other apps needed.
Filmstrip View- Nothing else compares to this, it’s an enormous timesaver.
The Skimmer- love this thing, especially clip skimming.
Live A/V effects previews, and the quality and ease of the built in audio and compositing.
Timeline Index- I’m not sure people get how useful this is. I mean, you can do basic editing from the index if you wanted to.
Anyway…. I could drone on and on… My point is that X is an NLE, and like any NLE, you should use all the tools it offers to get your material ready to edit. What keeps me hooked is all the other stuff that really isn’t in anything else. Makes my life much easier. 🙂
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~\”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.\”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~\”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented\”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “Telling people that X is a completely “new way of editing” is a pet peeve of mine. (what is a peeve anyway??) It’s not reinventing the process, as a editors we are doing the same thing in X as anything else.”
Exactly, it also peeves me
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[Steve Connor] “Exactly, it also peeves me”
But what is a peeve?!?! And why would you have it as a pet? Anyhoo… To me, telling editors that to use X you need to relearn how you edit, your process, is both counterproductive, and incorrect. You need to learn how the app works, and then use all the cool stuff in it to make your job easier, which it does if you let it. You don’t need to change your process, whatever that is, at all, just adapt.
I do agree that trying to make X work like Premiere, or Premiere to work like Media Composer, or Media Composer to work like Final Cut 7, is an utter waste of time. They’re all the same, but different. Each has great features that the others don’t. I will say though, if I had to choose a “base” NLE onto which I would bolt all the best stuff stolen from other NLE’s, it would be FCP X. 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
Oliver,
I actually think a part of the process IS different in this way.
Virtually everything about the mechanical processes of the storyline – except the magnetic reactions that anyone can learn in a week – are pretty much the same NLE to NLE. Not exact, for sure – and constructs like the timeline index and Roles and even X’s specific Share system take study – but they are all at least somewhat similar to what any editor might expect to need to learn to do in any NLE. They make at least some historic senseto my thinking, if not the X implementation of them.
I’m not sure the keyword and tagging and hide/reject system is in the same class.
Maybe editors with more experience than I have with other systems can school me here, but I’ve never seen an NLE with a front end organizational system that’s bolted directly into the interface that has the simple power that this one does.
I’ve been working with it for nearly 5 years and I’m still learning new tricks and techniques to improve my results with the various types of projects I find myself doing.
Perhaps an editor who does the same type of work day after day or year after year finds one way to tag and access their work and sticks with it. But I have at least a dozen distinct strategies that I use regularly for different types of work. And I refine within those for each new challenge. It’s part of what keeps my editing excitement high with X. How can I use these database tools to make my work easier for this gig. That’s where each job begins for me. It’s fun!
YMMV
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “But I have at least a dozen distinct strategies that I use regularly for different types of work.”
That was my point. The way FCPX works is superior for some types of projects and generally equal for others. For example, in a simple one-person, two-camera interview, there’s no disadvantage to simply going straight to the timeline and working there. OTOH, if you have soundbites from several dozen people in different cities and are trying to compile a story from these, then FCPX’s tagging structure has clear advantages. And even there, some editors might still feel they are faster working directly in the timeline from the start. It’s entirely a personal thing.
[Bill Davis] “I’m not sure the keyword and tagging and hide/reject system is in the same class.”
Other NLEs do this too. What’s unique about X is that it can be done based on ranges within a clip, not merely the whole clip. Although one could argue that you can use subclips to do the same thing. Apple has also provided a more fluid keystroke command structure than found in other NLEs.
The other thing that’s different – although sort of exists in other NLEs, too – is that, since the keyword collections are simply metadata filters, a clip can appear in multiple keyword collections. They aren’t tied to a specific bin (without subclipping). Unfortunately, IMHO, this also often makes the main Event a complete mess, because every clip appears there. This is usually a disadvantage when match-framing.
And so – pros and cons with either approach.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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