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Will Apple abandon pro-users all together?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Blackmagic is giving away a really powerful color corrector. Is that destroying a part of the craft?”
that more than a bit of a false comparison – blackmagic are still looking for quite a bit of money for the hardware interface and the full version on the suite correct? So this is a lite software release like countless others, in order to draw in the market? I don’t quite see what point is being made there.
Also, blackmagic at least had the good grace not to turn their advanced software into “My First Moron Colour Corrector – Now Featuring Terminally Stupid Square Colour Wheels”….
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
[David Roth Weiss] “Honestly Jeremy, that’s one of the most overused and supremely over-simplistic cliches of all times. And, it’s really insulting to those artists who have heavily invested in FCP infrastructure. There are many very talented artists around the world who simply can’t afford the kind of disruption Apple has created for them in these times of tremendous economic upheaval.
The costs of retraining and retooling are hardly insignificant for many, and they should not be made to sound trivial. You have the luxury of working for people who buy your toys, but not everyone in the world is so lucky. Rafael has mentioned this to you several times, but you’re not obviously not paying attention.”
David-
As I mentioned to Rafael, and with all do respect, I do not feel that my personal employment arrangement is what needs to be on trial here. And yes, that’s is a cliche, that was the point as I went on to explain that there’s even cheaper professional options put there then FCPX. So is it about the cost of the tools?
I have done nothing wrong here. If you don’t like me for whatever reason, that’s is fine, but please don’t make assumptions on what you think my employment situation might be. I can pretty much guarantee you don’t know how it works, why should you? I wouldn’t expect you to and I certainly wouldn’t think it matters.
I’m really sorry if I have offended people for whatever reason. It is certainly not my intention.
I am trying to figure this situation out just like everyone else, and it’s going to hurt a bit. I understand that my opinions are probably unpopular as I actually see potential in FCPX. I’m OK with that. Be mad at Apple, don’t make assumptions about my employment, as I surely don’t make assumptions about yours or anyone else’s. It’s none of my business.
Thanks for your understanding.
We will never have another FCS3. It is gone. Buried. Legend. The sooner we all realize this, the better.
What I find really ironic about this whole situation, is that the same. exact. arguments. we’re had about fcp3. It was too cheap, it was too easy, it was not professional. Did that prevent anyone from using it?
I have no idea what is in store for FCPX. I have no idea if it will truly be a viable platform to build a business around*, but this conversation has taken place before. Our roles in the conversation have probably changed since then, but we shouldn’t forget where we came from. Believe me, David. I’m paying attention.
A decision was made without us knowing it, and it leaves us with tough choices. Yep, it might be hard, and yep, there’s going to be a learning curve, but that’s how it’s been in the digital camera business for the better part of a decade. Every camera is different, they record to different formats and require different workflows. Cameras purchased 5 years ago are no longer sold. It has not been easy (or cheap) but the world has survived. And we too, will survive this. Right?
Jeremy
* (that is if you believe I am in business)
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “Yes rather, a mentor of mine told me to really try not to use the hackneyed ‘it’s not the tools it’s the talent’ line if at all possible.”
Oh boy. It was an anecdote. It’s never been about the tools.
The same arguments were had when video cameras came out and took over some of the film business.
It’s been happening for a very long time. That’s all.
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “that more than a bit of a false comparison – blackmagic are still looking for quite a bit of money for the hardware interface and the full version on the suite correct? So this is a lite software release like countless others, in order to draw in the market? I don’t quite see what point is being made there”
Aindreas, you must have missed the news. Resolve Lite now offers unlimited nodes and DNxHD MXF support for FREE. It’s also being ported to Windows.
Conversations on the Resolve board mirror some of the conversations here:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/277/12107Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “that more than a bit of a false comparison – blackmagic are still looking for quite a bit of money for the hardware interface and the full version on the suite correct? So this is a lite software release like countless others, in order to draw in the market? I don’t quite see what point is being made there.”
Becuase my particular view point is unpopular, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I get it.
Do you have to buy the hardware though? No. I am sure there will be people that use a color corrector without proper hardware.
Doesn’t black magic offer some of the lowest price hardware out there?
Lightworks will also offer hardware, but is it absolutely necessary?
It’s not a false comparison.
I agree with most of the things you say, Aindreas, your flier analogy is spot on, but this argument you are making has been happening since the dawn of composite video. It is nothing new and Apple aren’t the only ones that have lowered the cost barrier.
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I know, I somewhat chose to ignore that point. it does.. look suspiciously free.
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
Aindreas, I am sympathetic to your sentiment here and I do hate to disagree with you, but I think Bill has a point.
There was a time (granted, it was the Middle Ages — but still, there was a time…) when you hired someone to write your letters for you. Today, practically everyone is literate and nearly all people write nearly all of their own correspondence. Of course, there is still a good market for professional writers, but the skill of writing is no longer their exclusive domain, and there’s no longer any such thing as a scribe.
Video will not be as widespread as writing. After all, we’re a group of video professionals communicating with written words! However, I think Bill’s point stands: video literacy will only increase from here.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “they are wrecking the technical market for the pursuit of the art and craft of editing. they are about destroying the entire market. Apple are nearly the worst thing that ever happened to the moving image software maket at this point. think about it – they are killing the entire market in a pure microsoft fashion by making it economically inhospitable. Immense market leverage for the price of a proverbial burger. Does this remind you of anyone? Do we think we will see any other new innovations? in a 300 dollar perpetuity pagemaker market?”
On the subject of falling prices, I think post-production was caught in the middle. The costs of both acquisition and distribution have plummeted, which has broadened access to both. Someone had to fill the gap in the middle of the process. Apple is following here, not leading. Blame Sony for the VX1000, or Flip for the FlipCam, or the big electronics conglomerates for every video camera in every cell phone in everyone’s pocket. Blame YouTube.
Is Apple wrong to expand access by lowering the barriers to entry? I’d have a hard time arguing that, since I was a big beneficiary of Final Cut Pro’s insanely low pricing ten years ago. Does it really make a difference if they sell it for $300 versus $995?
If FCPX doesn’t deliver the features that pros need, or if Apple doesn’t make pros feel better about buying Apple products again, does it matter how cheaply they sell it?
Has FCPX really impacted the market at all — other than driving new Avid and Adobe license sales? All the facilities seem to have glanced at FCPX, blinked, and then gone about their business.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “I know, I somewhat chose to ignore that point. it does.. look suspiciously free.”
Take a really good look around.
The DaVinci platform is free.
Lightworks is also offering a platform, and it will be almost free.
Adobe allows you to hire the CS on a monthly (or yearly) basis, and some of it will be available in the cloud. They are also looking ahead and seeing how viable their software is going to run on (shudder) tablets. They know the power isn’t there yet, but will it be there some day? https://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud.html
It is up to the individual user to scale up these platforms and make it as pro as he or she needs. Is that going to destroy a craft?
That same mentor that I mentioned in his 30+ years of business, the rental costs of his tools to his clients has dramatically stayed pretty much the same, and his day rate rate hasn’t changed a whole hell of a lot, and he is still doing just fine. That has been through the myriad of formats that have come and gone while price differences of those tools have fluctuated from a second mortgage to a second day of work. So, perhaps you and DRW will discount this. I will not. To each their own, it’s really none of my business how you run your business.
This idea is not being held on to or offered only by Apple. As a matter of fact, it is how they are competing. It seems to be a new way of doing business and figuring out a cost structure.
While FCPX could be used as a “digital flier” maker, so could Adobe Illustrator, or Photoshop, or Photoshop Elements. But there’s also people that can use those exact same tools and make great work. So I ask you, cliche or not, is it really the cost of the tools? This argument is not new, has already happened and will continue. It is perhaps our position and perspective in the midst of the argument that most likely has changed since we were forced to take a good look around. The world around us has certainly changed a bunch.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I have done nothing wrong here. If you don’t like me for whatever reason, that’s is fine, but please don’t make assumptions on what you think my employment situation might be.”
The thing is Jeremy, we all like you. You “were” always a completely reliable and supportive ally on the FCP Forum. Then, the skimmer came along…
So, now you hear guys like Shane, Rafael, and myself responding to some of your posts in ways that make you question our Garchow brand loyalty, and naturally you think we must not like you anymore. I get it… It’s not true, but I get it.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It has not been easy (or cheap) but the world has survived. And we too, will survive this. Right?”
It is precisely on this point where we differ. An entire ecosystem system has been brought to its knees, without any warning, and when that happens extinctions are inevitable. And, contrary to what you and others on this forum keep repeating, and repeating, and repeating, it’s not just the old, the weak, and the infirmed who suffer in times like these.
The bones of Tyrannosaurs and the teeth of Megalodons are the only relics of those bad boys (and girls) that remain to tell their tale, and they were not inferior, untalented, old, or too set in their ways. To continue to suggest that this unexpected event will not prove to be a cataclysm for many very talented artists is simply blindness, insensitivity, or both.
And, any of you who want to argue that they’ll be better off after the shakeout may be in for a rude awakening. There are no “agile” or “more nimble” dinosaurs ruling the Earth today; their bones lay right beside their bigger dinosaur competitors, and they’re just as dead and just as extinct.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comDon’t miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing “The Whale” to the Big Screen:
https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfitandSuzanneChisholm/1POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
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[David Roth Weiss] “The thing is Jeremy, we all like you. You “were” always a completely reliable and supportive ally on the FCP Forum. Then, the skimmer came along…
So, now you hear guys like Shane, Rafael, and myself responding to some of your posts in ways that make you question our Garchow brand loyalty, and naturally you think we must not like you anymore. I get it… It’s not true, but I get it. “
While I am flattered, I think we should take this offline. I could really say the same, but there’s no reason to discuss this in a public forum, or at least this public forum. I do see potential in FCPX, and that’s about the only thing that has changed and it seems to have caused a seismic gap. I understand it’s not the most popular point of view. I will write you offline.
[David Roth Weiss] “It is precisely on this point where we differ. An entire ecosystem system has been brought to its knees, without any warning, and when that happens extinctions are inevitable. And, contrary to what you and others on this forum keep repeating, and repeating, and repeating, it’s not just the old, the weak, and the infirmed who suffer in times like these. “
I have never said anything about the old, the weak and the infirmed, at least nothing that has singled out anyone quite like that. Everyone’s situation is completely different including mine, so I can only offer one perspective. As far as the ecosystem being on it’s knees, I just don’t see it as the sky being that low quite yet, and I think it’s part of a greater problem and FCPX is not the catalyst. If Apple would have released FCS4, the upgrade cost would have been at or higher than FCPX (and if it was lower, would anyone have complained?). The cross-grades that have been offered by other NLE companies have been extremely fair, some professional software is being handed out for free. A lot of the tools we use today (the royal we), right now, are cross platform. There has never been a better (read: more affordable) time to look around. It is not about the money (but alas, it’s about the money). It’s not about the cost of FCPX, it’s about the cost of the non existent FCS4.
By the way, FCPX is being used for Episodic TV: https://twitter.com/#!/DSquirrel/status/141777389670768640/photo/1
Jeremy
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