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Why still use 23.976 and 29.97?
I’m still learning… but I know unless a project is going to play in the theaters… I should record and use 23.976 instead of 24fps when given the choice.
I know I should, because resounding I’ve been told I should. But I guess I don’t really understand why.
Using the fraction frame rates has more to do with NTSC monitors doesn’t it? And since the world is moving away from that is it still necessary to use 29.97 or 23.976?
Or does it have more to do with broadcast? And if that’s the case, what about personal projects that I shoot and only plan to watch on my computer or DVD player? Or does DVD require the fraction frame rates too?
I’ve been reading up on the subject and asking questions, but maybe because I started learning about frame rates while there was a choice between 24p and 23.976 and 30p and 29.97, that is why I’m having such a hard time with it. To me life would be so much easier if there was just one to use (like before I was editing and it was all 29.97) But if it seems we are headed towards 30p only in the future…. why still use 29.97 (or 23.976)for new projects?
Thanks for any help understanding this… I’d like to get if sorted out once and for all!
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16 Replies
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23.98 and 29.97 do seem like total throwbacks but I bet they still exist because HD broadcast in the US of 1080i is 59.94… which is also dumb but probably there so legacy SD material can be up-rezzed to 1080i without cadence issues.
NeverTheSameColor….
-Rob-
Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.comMAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma.
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[Robert Houllahan] ” so legacy SD material can be up-rezzed to 1080i without cadence issues”
I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the answer.
Another question in the same area:
Over the weekend I recorded some stuff off my computer using FRAPS. I had the choice of 30fps and 29.97. I chose 30fps.
The problem I had was when I put in in FCP7 I could not play it to my grading monitor through my decklink card. In the Audio and Video settings I could not find a Blackmagic 1080p 30fps (or 60fps) setting.
Is there no 1080p 30fps or am I missing something?
Thanks
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In your initial question you mentioned playback on NTSC monitors. In your second question you state 30fps will not playback to your grading monitor.
Had you shot at 29.97 you would have a better chance of achieving playback
your grading monitor wants to see an NTSC signal. 30 fps is not an NTSC signal.
You will be able to play 30 fps on your computer display but not an NTSC display
1080i 59.94 has a field rate of 59.94 but a frame rate (TC rate is 29.97)
In NTSC progressive segmented frame rates can be 23.98 Psf or 29.97 Psf.
Note that a tri level sync generator is required for the Psf rates
fractional frame rates were needed in North America when TV began color broadcasting. in order to push more data ie color information within the same bandwidth the only available option was to slow the signal down to fit the data into the bandwidth.Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN -
[Doug Beal] “your grading monitor wants to see an NTSC signal”
I’ve always thought NTSC monitors are CRT. My grading monitor is LCD but it is hooked to the computer using a SDI > decklink card > HD Link Pro > display port cable and IN.
Does that connection make it NTSC?
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From what I can tell it is probably the HD-Link Pro DP that does not support 1080p 30.
Decklink supports 1080P 30
Resolve has a setting for 1080p 30
The HD-Link Pro only seems to support 1080p at 59.94 and 60 but not 30..
Maybe that is it?
-Rob-
Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.comMAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma.
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The HD link might be the weak link.
I can always hook up my grading monitor to my graphics card if I want to do FCP editing with 30p I suppose.
This does lead to my ultimate question:
If I’m recording stuff from computer using FRAPS that I want to keep for nostalgic purposes – for 10,20,30 years… etc. Should I do it in 30p or 29.97?
I’d watch it on my Computer and DVDs… although DVDs probably won’t last that long.
I’m just wondering if I do 29.97 if that might cause viewing problems in the years ahead?
Any suggestions?
Thanks 🙂
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Will anything made on a computer last 30 years?
You could always speed change it from 30fps to 24fps with FCS-3’s Cinema Tools… it will then be more filmic…
-Rob-
Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.comMAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma.
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I’m happy to be in europe for that 🙂
réalisateur, scénariste, monteur, étalonneur
http://www.robinerard.ch -
Yeah, 25 fps ruuule 😉
Essentially when I have to convert from a 29,97 show that was originally recorded in 24p and pulled up.
A world of pain 🙂
But there is ONE solution…Teranex !!A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
That’s why, unless there are mitigati circumstances, I always recommend shooting 23.98. 23.98can easily be converted to 24 (and therefore 25 & 50i using pull down) and 29.97. It’s the best compromise for a “filmic” look.
However for using fraps, 23.98 might not actually capture the feel of what you’re doing. and you might need to go 720p60 for some video games.
30p though should be easy to covert to 2997 in compressor, just use the “set so frames play at 2997” setting.
And the reason that NTSC is 29.97 and pal is 25 is because the US’ electricity grid is a voltage thing. Original analogue tv’s had to run at the fraction of the timing that your voltage did. And because ac power in the US is not quite 120hz, hence 5994i, 2997, and a much later hack to get film’s 24fps to 29.97, 23.98… Europe design PAL much later and was able to create a higher resolution system.
Joseph Mastantuono
http://www.goodpost.net
Color Grading & Post Production Consulting
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