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Why no “Send To Motion”?
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I think in part its because its the one I really learnt – like ten years ago, after watching maffit break it down – the whole – set your per shot mid low highs, (I love that function) get into the levels, the adjust wheels – but also just the kinds of things the different colour spaces can do – I find it a really nice place to noodle with an image.
As walter points out – i’m probably insane that I haven’t been boning up more on resolve – or indeed speedgrade which is sitting on my dock – although with speed grade there are some very good in depth tutorials – I kind of feel like I get speedgrade, that if I had to jump in I’d be largely OK – cannot at all say the same for resolve.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “yeah, I maybe don’t have great answer for that. I just find the ability to go with finesse, some masks for dodge and burn, some global stuff shining down over everything on adjustment layer”
I think I was way too harsh before. I do use color-correction tools in Ae all the time — in context of animations or composites. I love the power and flexibility for those situations.
I just shudder a little bit when I see someone suggesting using Ae as the color corrector in traditional cut ‘n’ color workflows. It doesn’t exploit Ae’s strengths and really exposes a lot of its weaknesses. Unless you’re already accustomed to the way Ae works (as you are), it can be a very frustrating experience.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s After Effects for goodness sake, track and mask all you like. “
If by that you mean, “It’s After Effects for goodness sake, send stuff out to Mocha for tracking and mask all you like” — I agree. Ae’s built-in point tracker is a real weak point when compared with other compositors or color grading systems.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I find Finesse to be perfectly capable of you want to get real color work done in Ae on a few shots.”
Like I said to Aindreas, I was too harsh before. I agree that Ae/CF is very capable of the work, and they are really nice tools to have available — it just has a very clumsy workflow and limited grade management toolset, which is especially evident in longer-form coloring.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “If by that you mean, “It’s After Effects for goodness sake, send stuff out to Mocha for tracking and mask all you like” — I agree. Ae’s built-in point tracker is a real weak point when compared with other compositors or color grading systems.”
Not for color correction which rarely has to be a finely tuned track.
Especially with tools such as roto brush, Ae is no slouch for the simple stuff.
There is a vast tool set in Ae, that when combined with Finesse, makes sent work of it without having to go out to other applications.
But seriously though, bring on Speedgrade to some sort of tangible workflow the CS, eh?
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[Walter Soyka] “Motion doesn’t have those tools in that same depth, which I thought was Oliver’s point.”
Well, no. It doesn’t, but it’s not like it doesn’t have any. It actually has some decent ones, and yes they work differently than Ae.
Motion is not Ae, never has been, never will be.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Well, no. It doesn’t, but it’s not like it doesn’t have any. It actually has some decent ones, and yes they work differently than Ae.”
I honestly forgot how we got here. I had to back and re-read the thread.
I thought Oliver’s point, which I tried to back up, was that Motion lacks tools for dealing with the project once it reaches a certain level of render complexity — which is true. This was part of a larger discussion about being realistic about what we might expect about round-tripping and effects integration.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Motion is not Ae, never has been, never will be.”
Of course, and I like Motion for what it is. I’m really not trying to bash it. It’s a fantastic tool that is designed to solve a different set of problems than Ae. That’s a good thing — post-production is better for having both of these tools available.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Especially with tools such as roto brush, Ae is no slouch for the simple stuff. There is a vast tool set in Ae, that when combined with Finesse, makes sent work of it without having to go out to other applications.”
Totally with you. If you’re already working in Ae, it’s fantastic having the tools there to do your color work, too.
All I’m saying is that Ae makes a poor choice for a dedicated color grading app, because “proper” color grading apps have vastly better workflows.
Resolve is free. SpeedGrade is bundled with CS6. There’s no need to suffer through clever but outdated DV Rebel workflows in 2013.
[Jeremy Garchow] “But seriously though, bring on Speedgrade to some sort of tangible workflow the CS, eh?”
Can’t wait!
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] ” I just shudder a little bit when I see someone suggesting using Ae as the color corrector in traditional cut ‘n’ color workflows”
I know – if I’m being honest, I’ll just take any opportunity to boost premiere – I want to see it take hold. In this context though – the idea that editor A will take his edit to AE is a stretch – I do, thats where I always send a serious thing via FCP2AE scripts and that.
that said I might hesitate to take a long form piece in there – thats a different ball of wax – although mind you – Stu Maschwitz still appears to do so, judging from a thing he put about a year ago – its not ideal, the layer management gets pretty extreme, but if you get used to jumping around a hundred odd layer AE comp, its not utterly horrible, and you know – you’re in AE town – which is a nice place to be.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Walter Soyka] “There’s no need to suffer through clever but outdated DV Rebel workflows in 2013.
“actually I’m going to disagree with this, in the context of a broader client piece where typography and design elements form part of the final master?
in that context AE wins – I did this thing for a client: https://vimeo.com/42327721
and the final session was me and the art director doing a shot to shot grade, and also dealing with type design placement and colour stuff.
AE is a very nice place to do title work – far nicer than smoke say – can’t speak for resolve – but also – the design reference is very often a PSD which feeds in pretty well?
it may not be for all cases – but AE as a final master environment is not outdated imho.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “actually I’m going to disagree with this, in the context of a broader client piece where typography and design elements form part of the final master?”
We agree here.
It’s all about the best tool for the job. If the job is just color, Ae is often not the best tool. If the job spans color, compositing, design — then yes, absolutely, Ae is a fantastic and often unmatched tool. (Smoke also, but it has a different set of strengths and weaknesses than Ae in this context — so it all depends on the job.)
[Aindreas Gallagher] “AE is a very nice place to do title work – far nicer than smoke say – can’t speak for resolve – but also – the design reference is very often a PSD which feeds in pretty well? it may not be for all cases – but AE as a final master environment is not outdated imho.”
Totally agree. I finish in Ae quite a lot myself, because it doesn’t care what raster size I’m working in and because it lets me integrate design, compositing, and color.
Please consider my remarks about the unsuitability of Ae for coloring in the context of editorial/grading only. A few years ago, when Ae was affordable to guys like us and Resolve/Color/SpeedGrade were not, Ae was a color grading choice out of necessity, not suitability. Today, I see people here on the Ae forum too often struggling to use Ae for color where Resolve or SpeedGrade would be better suited to the job.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events
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