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Why no “Send To Motion”?
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[Walter Soyka] “Motion’s design assumption seems to be that it will run in real-time, so once you exceed your machine’s capabilities, you don’t have many options for dealing with that reality.”
I’m not following, It has different quality settings just like Ae as well as a ‘RAM Preview’ type of system:
[Walter Soyka] “And they let you offload it to a farm in the machine room [link].”
Right! We should all get render farms.
[Walter Soyka] “Dynamic link can then pull cached media instead of trying to re-render on the fly.”
Render and replace in the Ae comp works too. I still crashes sometimes, though. It is sometimes easier to keep them separate by importing Pr Projs to Ae and avoiding dynamic link. What makes it unfortunate is that you can’t have separate Pr projects open, so I can’t send just a few things very easily without a lot of safety dances.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “There are other companies that follow this business model exactly.”
True, of course, but how about some examples in our business where it actually works well. Especially when direct integration is required. The closest example might be Adobe and integration isn’t as good as it could be across the board. Look at Avid. The integration among MC, DS and PT is only getting somewhat better after years of effort.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Are you saying After Effects is a real time compositor?”
No, but there a very slick routine between degraded scrubbing and then popping to full res at pause. Makes for much faster operation than a similar composite in Motion.
[Jeremy Garchow] “What do you discount is FCPX’s real time scrubbing preview of single effects capabilities.”
I think the operative term is “single effects”. As far as previewing effects in the effects browser – it’s nice, but not a huge selling point for me.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Smoke 2013 is a render monster”
You can work with compressed movie files. Renders are also faster than on most other NLEs. Some timeline effects will play in real-time.
[Jeremy Garchow] “How much have you hammered Dynamic Link?”
I’ve used it some, but I’m not a big AE user, except for dedicated shots created and finished in AE. I prefer an all-in-one solution.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I’m not following, It has different quality settings just like Ae as well as a ‘RAM Preview’ type of system:”
Yes, but Ae also has the ability to toggle live update, it has adaptive resolution, it allows you two separate RAM preview settings with different resolutions and frame skipping settings, it allows you to make and use proxies for any kind of asset or comp, it allows you to pre-render precomps, it allows you to work in a specific region of interest, it allows you to adjust a variety of render settings on a per layer basis, all of which is easily overridden for final render, and the new cache system stores intermediate layers as well as final renders, and applies to all instances of particular footage with particular effect settings on a frame by frame basis.
I’m not trying to knock Motion here, but the Ae toolset is richer for managing this kind of complexity.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Oliver Peters] “True, of course, but how about some examples in our business where it actually works well.”
We are getting to the larger point.
None of it really works exorbitantly well and these problems aren’t exclusive to Apple unless you spend exorbitant amounts of money on configured networkable system with custom software, although you’d think Apple is somehow responsible for the apocalypse after reading this forum for long enough.
[Oliver Peters] “No, but there a very slick routine between degraded scrubbing and then popping to full res at pause. Makes for much faster operation than a similar composite in Motion.”
I’m just not following this at all. Motion has many ways to power through composites.
[Oliver Peters] “[Jeremy Garchow] “Smoke 2013 is a render monster”
You can work with compressed movie files. Renders are also faster than on most other NLEs. Some timeline effects will play in real-time.”
Yes, but very very few. Rendering is very prevalent in Smoke 2013. I find it’s not much different then most other systems in my short testing.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Motion has many ways to power through composites.”
Yes, but they don’t appear to work nearly as well.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Walter Soyka] “I’m not trying to knock Motion here, but the Ae toolset is richer for managing this kind of complexity.”
Always has been. You worked on early After Effects/CoSA I imagine?
That DNA and methodology is still in Ae.
The Global Cache is new, though, and it’s nice. But it is very new.
Most of those features you mention were to mitigate the super ridiculously long renders on those old machines and turn them in to simply ridiculously long renders.
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[Oliver Peters] “Yes, but they don’t appear to work nearly as well.”
They are different.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Always has been. You worked on early After Effects/CoSA I imagine? That DNA and methodology is still in Ae.”
Nah, I’m a spring chicken. My first version of Ae was 4.0 (big new feature: RAM preview), and I didn’t really get serious until 5.5 (big new feature: advanced 3D renderer).
But your point is right on, and it’s a blessing and a curse with Ae. If Ae were to be developed from scratch today, the renderer would be very different from a technical perspective.
In some ways, I’d like Adobe to pull an Apple and re-architect the renderer. On the other hand, that thought is terrifying. Apple may be the only A with the special blend of courage and foolishness to scrap a successful product and start over.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Most of those features you mention were to mitigate the super ridiculously long renders on those old machines and turn them in to simply ridiculously long renders.”
Absolutely true, but resource constraints will always be with us. Ae has a set of tools to deal with that reality. Motion doesn’t have those tools in that same depth, which I thought was Oliver’s point.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “but I honestly can’t understand why you would want to color grade in Ae when Resolve is free.”
yeah, I maybe don’t have great answer for that. I just find the ability to go with finesse, some masks for dodge and burn, some global stuff shining down over everything on adjustment layer – I find that does it for me, but you are quite a bit more hardcore than me – i could care less about tracking feathered whatnots.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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With finesse and Ae, you can have tracking feathered what nots, that’s what is nice about it.
It’s After Effects for goodness sake, track and mask all you like.
I find Finesse to be perfectly capable of you want to get real color work done in Ae on a few shots.
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