Why is there a project library?

[Bill Davis]

Absolutely a possibility.

I’m no more assured that my view is the correct one than anyone else. That’s largely why we’re all here. To test our ideas and see what fits.

For me, a central question might be this.

When a person is structuring a workflow in X – are they doing it with their focus on their conditioning and toolset experiences of X. Or are they trying to build workflows in X based on recapturing or leveraging experiences with something that was NOT X?

I suspect that more any editor does the former, the more rapidly successful they will be.

Less “fight” more ” flow”.

And we’ve certainly seen a whole lot of “fight”, haven’t we!

[Oliver Peters] “Or are you simply using FCP X in a very limited and structured fashion that “stays within the lines”? In other words, are you actually missing some of the flexibility FCP X offers?
“

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Charlie Austin]

FWIW, I like having projects separate from the event for a couple reasons. The main one is that for any given spot/trailer/whatever that I cut, I’ll make multiple duplicates of the sequence before I even get to V.1. After that, I’ll make multiple duplicates between v1 and 2, 2 and 3… etc. It’s not uncommon for a spot to get close to or beyond double digit version numbers before it’s done. So, conservatively, if I finish a spot at V.6, it’s likely that I’ll have at least 12-15 copies of it in the library. Multiply that by 2,3,4,5 or more different spots per job (event) that’s umm… a lot. I absolutely don’t want all those projects in my event. That’s actually one thing I love about X vs legacy and others. If I have a folder with 20 versions of a cut in it, I don’t need to open them all one by one to find the cool cheat I did in a WIP somewhere in the middle. Just open the folder in the project library and skim around ’til I find it. Love it.

The other is that by keeping them in the project library, my event stays relatively small and organized. I can then organize projects into folders, and at some point I can move projects I know I’ll likely not need again – old WIP’s, dupes made from going between versions, even old versions etc – into new folders and disable them with Event Manager or by just archiving them in the finder. In many cases we’ll be working on the same project for many months and I shudder to think what my event would look like on a gig like this.

I could totally see using CC’s in an event if I was only going to have like a dozen or less sitting there though. But for what I do, that’s pretty unusual. 🙂

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Bill Davis]

[Jim Giberti] “hat’s all. I Love the program and use most if not all it’s strengths, but you shouldn’t mistake thoughtful approaches to “dams” and “striving for familiarity.” Sometimes people just do smart things that really work better for them and that don’t require a constant assessment of their motives or loyalty to an approach.”

I’ve come to “get” that is sometimes seems that this is where I’m coming from. But I’m not – at least by design.

I’m trying to represent a view of the program that I believe is much wider than how it fits in the large shop collaborative workflow that is the MOST represented view here.

I’m not quibbling that many full time seat editors have issues with X. That’s reasonable.

But I also believe that there’s a lot about X that goes beyond just the storyline. And that for many editors, the storyline is – in their day to day experience – a comfortably simpler workspace than it is for someone trying to cut a film or documentary or a network TV show.

If X works brilliantlly for that editor. The discussion here belies that if it’s ONLY concentrated on how X replaces AVID or FCP-LEGACY for large project work.

I’m fine with all the pushback. I can handle that. Maybe because my zeal is based on X satisfying my needs so wonderfully right now. So everyone who edits “like me” should know that it’s a fabulous option.

I posted yesterday about how I LOVE it for cutting my VO work. Few of you likely DO VO work. So that may well not be relevant. But for those who do, it’s likely interesting.

Guys like you are way smart enough to decide if it works for your maybe less typical but just as important workflows.

So I don’t argue about that. I try to argue about statements that can be misconstrued by the general editor to cause them not to investigate what might be a great tool for them.

Or at least that’s what I TRY to do.

🙂

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Oliver Peters]

[Charlie Austin] “t’s not uncommon for a spot to get close to or beyond double digit version numbers before it’s done. So, conservatively, if I finish a spot at V.6, it’s likely that I’ll have at least 12-15 copies of it in the library. “

I’ve been working the same way up until this production and have found the Project library structure to be very cumbersome for precisely this same reason. One of the reasons I decided to alter the approach. Granted, I’m staying fairly simple with these cuts that I keep in the Event. No effects, etc. as you will lose some of these by breaking apart down the road.

[Charlie Austin] “I don’t need to open them all one by one to find the cool cheat I did in a WIP somewhere in the middle”

But you have the same skimming capability in the event.

[Charlie Austin] ” I can then organize projects into folders, and at some point I can move projects I know I’ll likely not need again – old WIP’s, dupes made from going between versions, even old versions etc”

Using a keyword collection for “edits in progress” does the same thing. At least within the Event view. You can always move a compound clip to a Project and store it the same way you are doing this.

[Charlie Austin] “I could totally see using CC’s in an event if I was only going to have like a dozen or less sitting there though. But for what I do, that’s pretty unusual. :-)”

I do see your point, but at least for me, I find the opposite to be true.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Douglas K. dempsey]

Understood. So, between your short form and collaborative environment demands, any given compound clip you keep in Event Library is finished, and expands to be re-editable on a timeline, with ALL the pieces you need for the particular piece. No nesting.

But I guess I WOULD fall into the trap of nesting compounds, because I would: Edit any given sequence, consisting of camera audio, VO audio, SFX, music, secondary storyline clips for layering effects, titles etc…and then collapse ALL of that into a compound clip, store it in Events as “Scene 22 v3.”

THEN I would do that with lots of other scenes/sequences. Then I would need to lay out ALL those compound clips on the timeline, scenes 1 thru 22, in order to see the whole movie. And begin inserting MORE stuff into the timeline, like title cards between scenes for instance, maybe some more audio bridges between scenes. Whatever.

At that point, if I collapse the entire movie into a compound, e.g. “Entire movie v1.0” — haven’t I just committed the “no-no” of nesting a bunch of compounds within one mega-compound?

Whereas, kept as discreet Project in the Project Library, there are no compounds-within-compounds, only end-to-end compounds.

Doug D

[Charlie Austin]

[Oliver Peters] “I will have to send my final sequence to FCP7 (via Xto7) in order to generate OMF and EDL files. (FWIW – neither X2Pro or XML list files are an option.)”

What problems have you had with X2Pro? I’ve actually found it to be pretty good. I still need to go to 7 to spit out EDL’s, which kinda sucks. EDL-X works well, but causes problems when you have transitions other than dissolves, filters, opacity changes etc. The EDL’s are very accurate, but it doesn’t add the notes details telling the online guys what filters etc you’ve applied to clips. I wish i didn’t need EDL’s, but I do. That sort of interchange with other NLE’s, particularly AVID finishing systems, is the biggest roadblock for me in getting everyone here to switch.

On an unrelated note, I DL’d the trial of MC 6.5 just to see how it’s progressed since I last used it. It reminded me of working in X storylines. 😉 Also… there sure are a lot of buttons. lol

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Jim Giberti]

[Bill Davis] “I’m not quibbling that many full time seat editors have issues with X. That’s reasonable.
“

But I’m not one of those guys Bill.
I’m the president and creative director of The Imagination Company.
I’m a writer, director, film producer and music producer primarily with a strong focus on strategy and branding.
FCPX is a creative tool I use like Photoshop or Digital Performer.
Now, we do a lot of film and TV work so I work a lot in FCPX, but I’m anything but a full time seat editor.

[Bernhard G.]

Hello,

a speculation:

– The Event-Project structure is aimed at collaborative workflows yet to be released.0
– Multiple users accessing one Event via rudimentary rights management while working
on their private Project.
– User could share a Project as a Compound Clip into an Event.

Best regards,
Bernhard

[Charlie Austin]

[Oliver Peters] “No effects, etc. as you will lose some of these by breaking apart down the road.

Yeah, and that’s kind of a deal killer for me…

[Oliver Peters] [Charlie Austin] “I don’t need to open them all one by one to find the cool cheat I did in a WIP somewhere in the middle”

But you have the same skimming capability in the event.

True, I guess to me it’s just easier to organize projects separately from the Event.

[Oliver Peters] [Charlie Austin] ” I can then organize projects into folders, and at some point I can move projects I know I’ll likely not need again – old WIP’s, dupes made from going between versions, even old versions etc”

Using a keyword collection for “edits in progress” does the same thing. At least within the Event view. You can always move a compound clip to a Project and store it the same way you are doing this.

Oh, for sure. But if you could see my project library for a feature we’ve been cutting stuff on for 8 months or so, it’d make sense as to why i don’t want all that crap in my event. 😉

[Oliver Peters] [Charlie Austin] “I could totally see using CC’s in an event if I was only going to have like a dozen or less sitting there though. But for what I do, that’s pretty unusual. :-)”

I do see your point, but at least for me, I find the opposite to be true.”

I hear ya… The takeaway here is that X is flexible enough, and getting more so with each version, to let folks work in a variety of different ways. 😉

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Bernhard Grininger] “Hello,

a speculation:

– The Event-Project structure is aimed at collaborative workflows yet to be released.0
– Multiple users accessing one Event via rudimentary rights management while working
on their private Project.
– User could share a Project as a Compound Clip into an Event.
“

I concur. Alex4D did a post a while ago about some “hidden” code in X pertaining to a collaborative workflow. I think it’s coming.

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~