Why is Keyframing in FCPX so shite?

[Bret Williams]

If you’re using the pan and scan effect, isn’t that ancient? Just for those that didn’t anti up for the 3D box? I’m dating myself. I was using Avid around 96-2002. If I wanted to pan and scan a pic, well I’d use After Effects because Avid wasn’t resolution independent. But if I had to use avid I’d just use the 3D motion effect (or whatever it’s called) and keyframe the pan and scan. If your keyframes fell on the first and last frames, then you could stretch out the clip and the first and last keyframes would go with. I think every clip always had a first and last keyframe. It was annoying if you had a start effect, then an ending effect and you wanted to lengthen the middle. I’d usually split the clip and extend it in the middle. Splitting and rolling out the middle didn’t effect the keyframes. So like anything else it had it’s quirks. I just found Avids defaulted to what you’d normally use. Unlike FCP 7, and to a higher extent FCP X where sometimes you just can’t get the linear move to work or get it not to ease in/out.

Funny about learning AE. Many years ago I learned photoshop, and then I opened a quick tutorial on AE and it was instantaneously obvious as to how the app worked. It was simply photoshop layers in motion. You could precompose of course, but that wasn’t too tough to understand. In fact, photoshop later added pre comps in the form of folders in the layer stack. To me, motion is a bit scattered. It’s not very visually intuitive as to what keyframe applies to what and what effect is nested with what layer, etc. Since the “pre comps” are all visible right there in the main timeline. And there’s only one timeline in a project! What’s up with that? Extremely limiting. I’ll do entire graphics packages that utilize similar elements. Just like ol’ FCP 7 I’ll have a folder of compositions. And the render que, what a tool! I use it as my history in a sense. I can see what I’ve output and how long it took to render. If I rerender something I’ll delete the previous render from the que. When a whole project is done, with all the different elements like lower 3rds, main titles, effects, transitions, subtitles, whatever, I can always reopen a project and just hit rerender in the render que and recreate all the anims.

When FCP 1.x came along nested sequences made perfect sense. They were just like AE nested comps. I still remember talking at the local Avid group one time about when you should jump over and use AE instead of the built in Avid fx. I pointed out that AE had some basic stuff you could in no way to in Avid. Like nested comps (avid weren’t really that functional of nests), resolution independence, and layer modes (like add, multiply, hard light, screen, etc). FCP was pretty new in those days and after I went home, I realized that even in it’s infantile 1.x state, FCP could do all those things. So even in v1 FCP was a better animation and compositing editor than Avid. It had a lot of power under the hood. Just needed refinement around the edges. FCP X is kinda like that today. It does so many things better than Avid, 7, and CC, but it still lacks some refinement in some basic areas.

[Nikolas Bäurle]

Bret, yes, just tried it, you are correct.

But the example I posted was about the back and forth movement between the same Keyframes that people have problems with. In my example the image stays put. Even with that funky s move, if I scale, the image stays still between keyframe B and C.

Thanks for bringing up the s curve, hadn’t thought about it.
For what I’m doing on X right now Its not been a problem since i usually whipe the image off, or let it fall or jump out of the frame. If i want that perfect straight movement I always use Ken Burns.

I also tried it in AFX just now, perfect linear. In Motion I get a curve for the size by default, and change it back to linear in the Keyframe editor.

The thing thats really missing in X is a decent Keyframe editor or ar least a little more keyframe controll like for opacity:-)

Nonetheless I still like it for what I’m currently doing and its a step up from Legacy.

“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python

[Craig Shamwell]

Man….I’m perplexed?? I don’t see the problems you all are having with FCPX’s key-framing!!If I want an object to move, be it a text element or an object, I find FCPX’s Key-Framing to be as simple as it gets.
Once I size the image to its final size, I position it, move the timeline to the point where it will rest, set an end keyframe (KF) in the viewer while in “transform” mode. Just one click adds a KF to all perimeters. If you don’t change any of them, it doesn’t matter….less clicks! After setting the KF, I then move the timeline to where it will start, position the object and re-size it to it’s starting position. set an anchor KF, use the arrow key and nudge the timeline one frame and set a starting KF. (That description took only 138 words)
And at times, I start at the beginning. But this is where some get lost, because once you set the “first” KF, anything you do to the object in terms of transforming, cropping or opacity, FCPX will automatically set a new KF. That’s why its better to KF in reverse!!

As far as linear and smooth, do any of you know to click on any of the anchor points that are visible when you activate a clip and click on the “transform” tool? There are very useful tools for creating very cool movement!!
Look, while you may rant about Key-framing, I rant about those who crush FCPX without taking the time to LEARN what it can really do! So lets take it a little bit further. Lets say that same object you will want to FADE OUT after holding for 5 seconds? Making sure there is enough “clip”, place the time line at the place where you want the fad out to start. Again, click on the KF in the viewer(new anchor KF), nudge one frame forward, add another (starting)KF, move the timeline to the point where it will be at zero visibility, go to the opacity slider located in the ‘Compositing” window and slide it to zero! That’s it! You don’t even have to add another KF! Its done automatically!
So while I do appreciate a well deserved Rant from time to time, I just don’t see it applicable here. In all fairness, it just sounds like you have not grasped the concept of Key-framing my friend. And by the looks of it here, you are not alone!
But let me not end on a “cut”…Seriously, pay for a month of FCPX Tutorials. It will only be like 30 bucks. Put aside 1 hour every day to learn something new. FCPX is full of hidden stuff that does what a lot say they can’t do! I make money using FCPX too, and i would not be using it if Key-framing was as difficult as you make it out to be.

[Andy Neil]

[Craig Shamwell] “After setting the KF, I then move the timeline to where it will start, position the object and re-size it to it’s starting position. set an anchor KF, use the arrow key and nudge the timeline one frame and set a starting KF.”

Your description is exactly the reason why many people are frustrated with FCPX keyframing. It’s not intuitive, and it requires a different set of “rules” from other NLEs/programs if you need more than 2 keyframes. Even in your explanation, you’re using 3 keyframes to do a move that other NLEs only require 2 keyframes, and you think WE are the crazy ones.

Personally, this entire issue could be solved by simply defaulting X’s keyframing to linear instead of “smooth” interpolation on position and scale keyframes. Don’t put smoothing in unless I want smoothing. Or at least have the forethought to disable smoothing between keyframes that are the same value.

If you’re advocating adding 3 keyframes when you should only need 2, or keyframing in reverse, then there’s something wrong with the way keyframing is handled in the program, and knowing how to work around the problem doesn’t mean that it’s not there.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Nikolas Bäurle]

Craig, I agree with you that most problems with Keyframes that many have been having are easily solvable. The default Bezier movement between keyrames that many are complaining about are is simply a matter of clicking on the control frame in the viewer and changing it back to linear, or using the inspector. In my opinion the keyframing is very fast.

Now, I have been having discussions with Bret Williams and he pointed out that if you do a scale and position move you do get a small s-curve before it hits the next keyframe. You do not have this problem in AFX and in Motion you get a curve if you scale that you can change back to linear in the keyframe editor

I’m currently doing a lot of MTV style, fast curvy moves, making stills look like handheld camera moves etc. I love it for that and I get it done much faster, than Avid or FCP7. And this is one of the reasons I got the job as head editor at Promiflash in Berlin. They didn’t want too many linear moves, do something different. And when I do need something linear the Ken Burns effect is pretty good.

When you need that organic look, as if images are being thrown into the frame or fall out, X is very good.

True linear move in X is still kind of quirky, but not a reason for some of the angry reactions we’ve bee seeing. There still is the option of Motion, very easy to learn and AFX. Most Avid and Premiere editors I know use AFX, there must be a reason.

I like the Keyframing interface in X better than in 7, but I’m hoping we get an improved keyfame editor, where I could also ad a temporal interpolation not just for opacity. Some curve control in the timeline would be nice.

“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python

[Danhamilton]

This is one of those bugs that is so unusual I thought I would put together a little video tutorial to demonstrate the issue and how the “fix” is applied. Here is the link to my blog post about it. https://www.accularian.com/Subjects/Macintosh/final-cut-pro-linear-key-frame-problem/“>Keyframes on Vodka I hope it is helpful to some one else.

[John Smith]

Keyframing was designed by a complete ignoramus…. is there no way to select two or more keyframes and then drag them to a different point on the clip/region. All I want to do is drag two positioning keyframes from one end of a text clip/region in the timeline, to the other end. But I can’t find a way to select both keyframes. I don’t want to drag them individually (obviously) as then I have to faff around making sure the number of frames between them is the same as it was prior to moving them. If there is a way, then it’s about as intuitively assignable as something that’s been lost in the depths of the Amazon rainforest for 10,000 years 😛

thanks…

2.4ghz 12 core Mac Pro 2012, 32GB DDR3 DIMM Registered ECC, Mavericks OS X 10.9

[Charlie Austin]

[John Smith] “is there no way to select two or more keyframes and then drag them to a different point on the clip/region. All I want to do is drag two positioning keyframes from one end of a text clip/region in the timeline, to the other end. But I can’t find a way to select both keyframes”

Currently, you can’t. Hopefully they’ll get around to fixing this soon…

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[John Smith]

Thanks for reply… though it’s a bit like making a 4 legged chair and forgetting to put the forth leg on. They call the technical help in Apple Shops the Genius Bar, the one time I tried to use them they couldn’t even provide me an answer to the simplest of requests and told me to phone Apple Support, pure genius that! ;p

2.4ghz 12 core Mac Pro 2012, 32GB DDR3 DIMM Registered ECC, Mavericks OS X 10.9

[Charlie Austin]

[John Smith] “like making a 4 legged chair and forgetting to put the forth leg on.”

lol. I don’t think they forgot, probably just needed to figure out how to make it work properly. In the new iMovie, which some feel foreshadows possible features in the next X version, you can select multiple KF’s and drag them around…

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~