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Who uses ‘broadcast safe’?
Here is an excerpt from a post I made in the Broadcast forum but thought I should get an opinion from some FCP users.
It is regarding camera’s that have their white’s set to 105% (as delivered from the factory) and broadcast specs requiring Max 100%.
When making shows for broadcast, in Final Cut pro you have to put the broadcast safe filter on every individual clip in the timeline AND you have to make sure its in the correct pecking order.
If you have a colour correction filter in after the broadcast safe filter it could knock it out of safe. I mean how ridiculous is that? If you apply a broadcast safe filter to a clip it should make it ‘broadcast safe’ regardless of what you do to it later – or better still, have a single timeline option called broadcast safe.I really am a firm believer that people who write this software don’t use it in a real world environment.
Baz
What would I do without the ‘UNDO’ button!!!!
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37 Replies
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[Baz Leffler] ” I mean how ridiculous is that? If you apply a broadcast safe filter to a clip it should make it ‘broadcast safe’ regardless of what you do to it later – or better still, have a single timeline option called broadcast safe. “
It’s not ridiculous at all. It’s the way ALL filter based products work. After Effects, Final Cut Pro, Motion,etc…
Filters render Top to Bottom and when you change the order of the filters, it changes the final appearance of your image on screen. You use this to your advantage when you understand what it’s doing. I do this ALL the time in both FCP and After Effects to achieve looks. How the filters are stacked will give a certain look.
So if you want your show broadcast safe, then you apply Broadcast Safe and Levels as the very last two filters you use because those are the last two filters that will be rendered.
What’s ridiculous about this?
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[walter biscardi] “What’s ridiculous about this?”
Maybe you didn’t understand my post. You went on to repeat what I had already said about the ‘pecking order’. So I assume you either never read my post or you are showing off your knowledge. Yippee. Where is that an ‘opinion’.
What is ‘ridiculous’ is that it is NOT a broadcast safe filter. The ‘broadcast safe filter’ should be called ‘broadcast safe to here… (with no guarantee to what follows) filter’
A REAL broadcast safe filter when applied to a clip should make it broadcast safe REGARDLESS of what else is applied to it. Is that so hard to understand?
Baz
What would I do without the ‘UNDO’ button!!!!
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[Baz Leffler] “A REAL broadcast safe filter when applied to a clip should make it broadcast safe REGARDLESS of what else is applied to it. Is that so hard to understand? “
It’s a filter, just like ANY filter you would apply in Final Cut Pro. What would make it any different? The order still applies.
You put Broadcast Safe first and then a Color correction Filter AFTER, you’re going to have the ability to go above Broadcast Safe.
Why?
The Rules still apply. The Order of the Filters determines how your final product will look.
Again, what’s so ridiculous about this? You can’t have one filter operate differently than the others. It makes no sense.
If you want unlimited control without worrying about filter order or anything like that, then use Color. It has a global Broadcast Safe switch so you can grade and add filters to your heart’s content and never worry about Broadcast Safe. Kind of like what you asked for in your first post.
[Baz Leffler] “Maybe you didn’t understand my post. You went on to repeat what I had already said about the ‘pecking order’. So I assume you either never read my post or you are showing off your knowledge. Yippee. Where is that an ‘opinion’. “
I understood it fully. I don’t understand why one filter has to operate differently than the hundreds of other filters I use in FCP.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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If the FCP “broadcast safe” doesn’t float your boat, you can always use a “hardware” limiter or “legalizer”.
That’s what we do. Here’s what we use.
https://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/product_details.asp?sku=DL%5F860
I have to agree with Walter here. In theory, there’s nothing wrong with FCP’s approach That’s how filters work. The order in which you apply it DOES affect what it does. You just have to know that.
Mark
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[Mark Raudonis] “That’s what we do. Here’s what we use. “
What’s the price range on that puppy?
I have to say, we don’t use one, we only use Color and knock on wood, not a single rejection in well over 100 HD and SD Broadcast masters delivered. In fact I think we’re getting pretty close to cross 200 HD masters now.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[walter biscardi] “Again, what’s so ridiculous about this? You can’t have one filter operate differently than the others. It makes no sense.”
So WHY have a ‘filter’ that makes the clip ‘broadcast safe’ and then ‘allow’ other filters to negate it? It is not only ridiculous it is also illogical.
[walter biscardi] “It’s a filter, just like ANY filter you would apply in Final Cut Pro. What would make it any different? The order still applies.”
If Apple put some thought into it they could have made sure the broadcast filter ‘always remained the last’ in the chain. Maybe that is too logical.
[walter biscardi] “Again, what’s so ridiculous about this? You can’t have one filter operate differently than the others. It makes no sense.”
Why not? Is there legislation in place that makes it a criminal offence to do things logically?
So here is the strangest thing of all… WHY IS IT a filter and NOT a sequence setting? Then it would fit your rules and no one would have to go to jail.
Baz
What would I do without the ‘UNDO’ button!!!!
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FCP.”[walter biscardi] “I understood it fully. I don’t understand why one filter has to operate differently than the hundreds of other filters I use in FCP.”
Id say because unlike other filters, the purpose of the Broadcast safe ‘filter’ is to make the clip safe! In my mind it should override other filters because thats the whole point of the thing!
Perhaps it shouldnt be classed as a filter but rather as a separate tool ?
Considering in a long project you have to have hundreds of broadcast safe filters applied to clips, it can be fairly easy to miss if you’ve accidentally got it in the wrong order.
Next thing you know your tape gets rejected. Wouldnt life be easier if it just automatically took priority ?
~Peter Berthet
Sydney, Australia -
[Baz Leffler] “So here is the strangest thing of all… WHY IS IT a filter and NOT a sequence setting? Then it would fit your rules and no one would have to go to jail. “
Then do what I suggested, use Color.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[Peter Berthet] “Perhaps it shouldnt be classed as a filter but rather as a separate tool ? “
They already have the separate tool. It’s called Color.
[Peter Berthet] “Considering in a long project you have to have hundreds of broadcast safe filters applied to clips, it can be fairly easy to miss if you’ve accidentally got it in the wrong order. “
Which is why we use Color almost exclusively for all our projects. Broadcast Safe is simply an On / Off switch for the entire timeline.
It’s also why I always tell people never to apply Broadcast Safe and Levels (you guys seem to keep leaving that one out) when your project is completely finished and you’re ready to lay to tape.
Select All, Apply Broadcast Safe
Select All, Apply Levels
Render and you’re done. There’s no way to get the order wrong if you apply the two most important filters as the last thing you do. In fact, there’s no reason to even apply those two filters until you are completely done and ready to lay back to Master.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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Here is another easy work flow you can consider…
At the end of your project, make a nest of all the video and apply the broadcast safe effect to the nest – then all is covered in one easy step.
For someone who seems to have lots of issue with logic, you seem to lack it in your workflow for color correction. Logically it should be the last step in your edit, not the first or middle. Would you do an final audio mix and then add audio effects afterwards? Definitely not…
But to each their own!
But I do like your idea of having some global limiter instead… maybe this should be on the hardware side like in the AJA card or whatever…
Liam Lawyer
-editor-
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