Which Software Will Prepare a Student for College and Industry?

[Dennis Radeke]

I assume you mean this part: Nuking

“Bernard, does your school use CLP licensing, and maintenance contracts? If so, what is your plan going forward, given Adobe’s killing of maintenance licensing and large price increase?”

If this is indeed what you’re referring to, I can only reiterate what I’ve said: the price is less – comparison between shrink and subscription here: Educational buying guide and maintenance is built into the price: Long FAQ but product updates/upgrades here

Hope this helps. Let me know what other questions people may have.

Dennis

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Dennis Radeke] “Let me know what other questions people may have.”

Reckon I’ll leave it to Chris!
However: continuing to blankly say that shrink wrap software is more expensive than the cloud does not at all answer the specific issue of chris’s costs exploding by 300% as a result of Adobe’s decisions with regard to educational pricing. But I get that you basically can’t address or answer that.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Chris Jacek]

[Dennis Radeke] “@ $360 for a year ($20 x 12), that’s still LESS expensive than purchasing a single suite to say nothing of all the apps and services you actually get. If you choose not to consider all of the other stuff like cloud storage, services, built in upgrades, new apps, tablet apps, etc. thats fine. The math still adds up for a single suite…

I would totally agree with you if Adobe was getting greedy and trying to charge more, but from everything I’ve seen, it’s simply not the case.

Like I said (and will likely say throughout 2013!), some people will not agree or get it. I can respect that. The fact is that today, CS6 is cheaper by purchasing as Creative Cloud on a subscription than as a box copy. That is true for EDU and for commercial.”

Thanks for chiming in, Dennis. I was hoping to get your take on things. I must, however, respectfully take issue with a couple of your points.

1. The price of $360 a year is not actually cheaper than what we already have. Not even the $240 for the first year at the $20 promotional rate. We already have the licenses, so we are paying $75 a year right now. That is, until Adobe killed the maintenance license. If we get some kind of additional discount for already owning the CLP perpetual licenses, nobody has told me about it. And believe me, I have gone to extreme measures to educate myself.

2. Even if we were purchasing a new license for Production Premium, at CLP pricing, it would cost about $400, plus another $300 for 2 years of maintenance licensing. That’s $700 for 4 years of product licensing, with all upgrades included. With the Creative Cloud for education, it would be $240 for the first year, plus $1080 for the next 3 years, for a total $1320 over 4 years. That’s STILL almost twice as much, and at the end of that 4 years, we have nothing. At the end of 4 years of CLP, we still have the newest version of the software.

3. The simple fact is that we are no longer able to continue in a system that Adobe sold to us, on a promise of budget predictability. The is the opposite of predictable from our standpoint. We have already budgeted the promised annual cost of $75 to keep our Production Premium licenses current. To keep the software we need for our program, there is no option. Adobe did, in fact, pull out the rug, because we only have $75 a year per seat. What can we get for the $75 a year that we have budgeted, thanks to Adobe’s failed promised? Lightworks.

4. Even at the promotional rate of $20 a month, Adobe has overpriced the Creative Cloud for education when compared to its traditional educational pricing. For as long as I can remember, Adobe discounted their software about 75% for its educational customers, which is why they are currently the leader in the educational market. To keep with that practice of discounting 75-80% for education, the price should be $10-12.50 per month for the Creative Cloud. At that price, I might actually be able to get the cost approved. It may still be double our current costs, but I believe that THIS is the price-point where the extra benefits of the full suite of products becomes a viable value.

Thanks again Dennis for contributing to our discussion. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that you provided me with much in the way of new information, and certainly have not given us any viable options. We simply cannot afford this price increase, and we will likely not buy any more Adobe products. We’ll use CS6 or CS6.5 (our maintenance still lasts until summer) as long as possible, and then move on to something else.

So Adobe probably has about a year to provide us with a realistic option. I hope they do, because my students absolutely love the Adobe products.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee

[Chris Jacek]

[Dennis Radeke] “Chris, I don’t think you have all of the facts here. For example, maintenance is built into the new model pricing structure. One thing Adobe has always done is give very good value to our customers. You might not like the model and that’s okay, but I’d encourage you to get all of the facts.”

Actually, I think the model is a pretty good idea. It is the price that we have a problem with. The iTunes music store could still be a great model regardless of price, but if songs cost $10 each, nobody would like it.

The math is actually ridiculously simple. We currently pay $6.25 a month per seat to keep current with all the Adobe products we use (Production Premium package). To keep that same functionality under the Creative Cloud system would cost us $30 a month per seat, after the promotional period. We can’t afford that. We don’t need the extras like Dreamweaver, cloud storage, etc.., They would be nice, but not in our current plans.

Make no mistake, the actual model of the Creative Cloud would be just fine if it didn’t quintuple our costs. Offer my school the Creative Cloud for $6.25 per month, and we’ll sign up today.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee

[Chris Jacek]

Finally, thanks to someone for actually hearing what I’m saying. I thought I’ve been clear enough, but all I keep getting from others (especially those at Adobe) is that the Creative Cloud is a better deal than we currently have. Despite the continued claims that the simple math works out if favor of Creative Cloud, it is simply not true. Not in my case. And not in the case of ANY educational CLP customers who have taken advantage of the maintenance licensing that has been an Adobe mainstay for years, if not decades.

Here, once again, is my simple math. Our current costs, including instant upgrades for every CS release, is $6.25 per month, per seat, for Production Premium. The cloud is $20 a month, and then $30 a month after a year. That math seems pretty simple to me.

Is $6.25 a month an insanely good deal? Hell yes! That’s how Adobe won our business. That, and the excellence of their products. Unfortunately, in the world of bottom lines in higher education, excellence alone is not enough. Genarts Sapphire is awesome, but $850 for a plug-in (that’s after 50% educational discount) is NEVER going to happen. So here we were, paying our $6.25 a month per seat, and being the world’s most enthusiastic Adobe cheerleaders, and now we are being told by Adobe that our best financial option is $30 a month? No even remotely true.

If Adobe really believed that this new $30 a month option was the best deal, why did they INSTANTLY kill the maintenance licensing program. It was barely a month from announcement to death. If the Cloud was so obviously a better deal, wouldn’t we all flock to it, and abandon the maintenance program that has served as so well in the past? There would be no need to kill the existing program if the new option was so much better. The only reason to kill a program that abruptly, is because you are trying to force everyone into a more expensive model.

Or to put it in a pop-culture context, “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.”

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee

[Joseph W. bourke]

I’m with you, Dennis, as well as all the others who have given an even-handed whack at the issue. As I said earlier, from my experience, the interns came in with some vague experience with Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, and maybe FCP7 (this was four years ago and prior to that). Our job was to give them hands-on experience in a broadcast TV environment, which involved everything from running camera, prompter, audio board, and other standard studio chores, to learning (actually learning, hands-on) Photoshop, Premiere Pro, AVID Newscutter, Soundbooth, and other hardware and software critical to the day-to-day workflow in broadcast news creation and delivery.

My feeling was that the best experience we could give the intern was a broad hands-on usage of everything used in that context. Walking out of an internship with software, audio, camera, field-production, studio production, and grip skills better prepares the student for the real world out there – and it increases the odds of their finding a job in the “real” world…be that broadcast, industial in-house production, high-end west and east coast production crews, and whatever shows up next…

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Chris Jacek] “Or to put it in a pop-culture context, “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.””

Very nice.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Dennis Radeke]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “However: continuing to blankly say that shrink wrap software is more expensive than the cloud does not at all answer the specific issue of chris’s costs exploding by 300% as a result of Adobe’s decisions with regard to educational pricing.”

Well, I have responded to Chris to address his specific situation and will endeavor to get a better understanding in order to resolve it if I can. If I said I know everything about Adobe (especially pricing), I would be a big fat liar.

THAT SAID, my links and words hold their own. It is right there on the web page links I gave and no one is arguing that the Adobe website is lying about pricing…

Dennis – Adobe guy

[Dennis Radeke]

Chris, please ping me via email or private note on this forum or via Twitter (@TheGenesisProj) or via my blog with a comment. The Genesis Project

I’d like to understand your specific issue better and if I can help you out.

Dennis – Adobe

[Chris Jacek]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “[Chris Jacek] “Or to put it in a pop-culture context, “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it further.””

Very nice.”

Thanks. I figure you can never go wrong with an Empire reference. I’d say it’s the best of the series, but I don’t want to start another major debate.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee