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Which networks use Premiere Pro?
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Everybody is talking about FCP eating Avid alive and Premiere’s weak media management compared to Avid’s as strong marketing and selling points.
Well, I work extensively in several NLEs and one of them is FCP.
FCP’s media management is NOT much better (if it’s any better) than Premiere’s one.
For a boutique I find Premiere’s MM, if not magnificent, adequate.
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This thread has strayed a bit from the original question, but that’s OK. As someone who was waiting with bated breath over what Premiere would release I gotta say I was a bit let down for several reasons.
1. The price is too high leading to a general sense that Adobe is taking advantage of me.
2. The upgrade path is non-existent. I feel like Adobe is trying to get people hooked on their other products so that they have too much invested to change. All companies do this, but it just seems wrong this time from Adobe.
3. There seems to be nothing here that’s gonna stop people from switching to FCP (in fact the price and upgrade path I’m sure will make some people finally make the switch to FCP). I want more of a feeling that others out there are gonna be joining the Premiere party, but it seems like everyone is checking out. This is a gut feeling, but I bet some of you have it too.
4. Too much concern on making the Adobe apps work together and not enough attention to making them work with the rest of the industry workflow standards.
I truly like Adobe, but I think they’re getting too greedy.
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Mmm, I guess you’re not aware of the massive changes that have taken place with both of the main British broadcasters over the past year.
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1. The price is too high leading to a general sense that Adobe is taking advantage of me.
It is high unless you’re a professional user who needs the capability Premier provides. There are many cheaper editing apps out there but you pay for what you get.
2. The upgrade path is non-existent. I feel like Adobe is trying to get people hooked on their other products so that they have too much invested to change. All companies do this, but it just seems wrong this time from Adobe.
Adobe encouraged people to buy the Video Collection. Now they’ve angered many who have no option to upgrade this collection with the same applications. I suspect this was for marketing reasons but it was a very bad move. For me the better integration does nothing to make up for the lack of improvement in the applications or to justify the expense of having to change to a different collection of applications. I already have Photoshop CS2 so why would I want to buy it again?
3. There seems to be nothing here that’s gonna stop people from switching to FCP (in fact the price and upgrade path I’m sure will make some people finally make the switch to FCP). I want more of a feeling that others out there are gonna be joining the Premiere party, but it seems like everyone is checking out. This is a gut feeling, but I bet some of you have it too.
If FCP was available now for the Intel/Win platform I’m sure there would be some willing to make the change. Often it’s people who have a gripe about applications that join in this form of thread but Premiere Pro 2.0 is a let down.
4. Too much concern on making the Adobe apps work together and not enough attention to making them work with the rest of the industry workflow standards.
For many this is a huge advantage and will save time but it does appear to have been done at the expense of adding the features that so many have asked for, features that would have brought it into line with standard professional procedures.
I truly like Adobe, but I think they’re getting too greedy.
I don’t like Adobe at all. They have a corporate attitude problem taht needs addressing if they want to truly embrace the video industry. I do however like many of the applications they produce. I just wish they would do to Premiere what they achieved so quickly with InDesign – a truly superb application.
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[Talking Madness] “1. The price is too high leading to a general sense that Adobe is taking advantage of me.
When FCP cost a thousand dollars American and Premiere cost four hundred, Premiere was thought to be a toy…this at a time when FCP didn’t even have audio level indicators in v1 for crying out loud. Adobe has chosen to take Premiere Pro to a different level of user…there’s no way to maintain it for the price-sensitive user while building the application’s capabilities. That’s why Premiere Elements was invented.
2. The upgrade path is non-existent. I feel like Adobe is trying to get people hooked on their other products so that they have too much invested to change. All companies do this, but it just seems wrong this time from Adobe.
It seems pretty right FOR Adobe as far as I can see. Can you upgrade Word outside of Office? No. Microsoft drove their competitors out buy bundling and putting all their applications in your hands at once…making you less interested in buying another spreadsheet or data base because you already have one. You can like it or not, but marketing-wise, it appears to be working pretty well.
3. There seems to be nothing here that’s gonna stop people from switching to FCP (in fact the price and upgrade path I’m sure will make some people finally make the switch to FCP). I want more of a feeling that others out there are gonna be joining the Premiere party, but it seems like everyone is checking out. This is a gut feeling, but I bet some of you have it too.
Other than for the forseeable future you have to buy a Mac that’s most likely more expensive and has less torque than a comparably priced PC with apps like AE…the Intel chips will help that so we’ll see how that goes. We have a Final Cut system in our facility. I honestly don’t see what the big differences are other than if you are a Mac person, obviously it’s the only game in town.
4. Too much concern on making the Adobe apps work together and not enough attention to making them work with the rest of the industry workflow standards.”
As I’ve posted before…MOST of the “industry standards” I’m hearing are either 1.) I want it to work like Avid or FCP and 2.) I need an offline/online workflow (most likely also because the user is used to Avid which still has harddrive pricing more reminiscent of 1996 instead of 2006 and the user isn’t accustomed to being able to afford having enough drive space to simply online the project and be done with it. We have an Avid in the facility too.)
…I’ve spent the last two days working around Avid’s huge “advantages” with some HDV-SD post work. My laptop PC running PPro 2 and ProCoder ingests/transcodes/ and transfers data faster than the Avid can even simply import it.
…I online. I online DV, SD, HDV, HD…all of it with PPro on a PC. The workflows usually referenced are legitimate, but they’re not oxygen. The application won’t suffocate for not having completely mimicked another app (from another era) I had Macs for a decade. FCP? At this point, PPro is doing the job. 5 years from now? Who knows?TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
Tim,
Your opinions are held in high regard by me. I agree with much of what you said, but have a few slightly different POV’s in some areas.
[Tim Kolb] “When FCP cost a thousand dollars American and Premiere cost four hundred, Premiere was thought to be a toy…this at a time when FCP didn’t even have audio level indicators in v1 for crying out loud. Adobe has chosen to take Premiere Pro to a different level of user…there’s no way to maintain it for the price-sensitive user while building the application’s capabilities. That’s why Premiere Elements was invented.”
Are you saying Adobe was justified in a higher price just so the perception of their product would be as a more professional suite?
[Tim Kolb] “It seems pretty right FOR Adobe as far as I can see. Can you upgrade Word outside of Office? No. Microsoft drove their competitors out buy bundling and putting all their applications in your hands at once…making you less interested in buying another spreadsheet or data base because you already have one. You can like it or not, but marketing-wise, it appears to be working pretty well.”
The upgrade path from Video Collection Premium to Production Studio Premium seems to be alright (still a bit expensive in my mind, but fair enough). However, the upgrade from Standard to Standard is a fiasco — you pay $499 and lose two of your applications (Audition & Encore).
You can like it or not decisions are not what inspires confidence in a company or its products. A better marketing angle would have been to include Audition, Encore and Photoshop for free (talk about something that would’ve gotten some people to switch over) in the new Standard suite. I can hear the marketing and sales people groaning right now about giving Photoshop away in the bundle, but it wouldn’t really be free for most people here since we already own it as a part of other suites. Heck, I bet everyone serious enough to commit to Production Studio already owns a copy of Photoshop — it would be a zero sum game for consumers and Adobe.
[Tim Kolb] “Other than for the forseeable future you have to buy a Mac that’s most likely more expensive and has less torque than a comparably priced PC with apps like AE…the Intel chips will help that so we’ll see how that goes. We have a Final Cut system in our facility. I honestly don’t see what the big differences are other than if you are a Mac person, obviously it’s the only game in town.”
Don’t overlook the fact that many people are starting from scratch, or at the point where they’re buying a new computer to handle the demands of a video editing system, so the notion of having to buy a Mac won’t be a factor for everyone. With the production Studio Premium being $400 more than FCP, some will view this as a $400 discount on the price of a new Mac.
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Fair comment Tim.
I would say that the MM argument is not solely off/online based. Its more about project consolidation and the cuurent method leaves your original project out in the cold. So there is work to do there, but you nailed it with the CMX analogy.
Thanks
Paul
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[Talking Madness] “Are you saying Adobe was justified in a higher price just so the perception of their product would be as a more professional suite?
I’m saying that Premiere lost a lot of perceived value during the days when a third to a half of its users paid an extra 75 or 100 dollars for a DV or FW card and found the full version of Premiere in the bottom of the box. People value what they pay for. If FCP v1 was worth a thousand dollars…Premiere was worth far more than 400 (or 100 in a bundle), but nobody knew it because who really gets a professional NLE for 100 bucks with a 500 dollar DV card?
To this day I believe that if FCP is worth the MSRP on it…the bundle is worth what Adobe is charging for it.
The upgrade path from Video Collection Premium to Production Studio Premium seems to be alright (still a bit expensive in my mind, but fair enough). However, the upgrade from Standard to Standard is a fiasco — you pay $499 and lose two of your applications (Audition & Encore).
This is a tough one and I wasn’t consulted on the product bundling… 🙂
I suspect the current bundle scheme was by popular demand. When the original standard bundle came out, many users didn’t do audio or authoring and really would have liked to have Photoshop…which many said was a more common sense grouping for a visual artist than an audio and an authoring application. I suspect you are the user Adobe originally had in mind and preferred it the other way. As I’ve said, it seems continuously, for the last month on ths board, each of our circumstances are different. Your viewpoint is that you’re losing Audition and Encore…perhaps you can run the versions of those two that you have and ‘gain’ the added applications…no?
Glass half-empty…glass half-full.
You can like it or not decisions are not what inspires confidence in a company or its products.
Unfortunately every decision by every company regarding product features ultimately comes down to a “you can like it or not” point. There’s lots of stuff I don’t like about Microsoft or even Adobe products…but I’m not the only customer either one has…
On this board there are people who wish that Premiere Pro managed media like an Avid. There are those who think that the absolute worst thing about it was the audio conforming. Some have said that Adobe took way too long and that we don’t mind paying for updates more often…of course others were really up in arms that 1.5 came out so soon after PPro 1 and said Adobe was simply fleecing them with such frequent upgrades.
Some said that it is an absolute non-starter without cut removal…or time-remapping…or hot keys for EVERY function…or a decent bin structure (Amen)…lockable clips…undo lists for each sequence maintainable between sessions…the list goes on and on and on…
…and every person says that one or two things are the key to PPro being a professional app. So are the one or two things from every user what it will take?…because some conflict directly.
A better marketing angle would have been to include Audition, Encore and Photoshop for free (talk about something that would’ve gotten some people to switch over) in the new Standard suite.
Giving something away for free is nearly what Adobe is doing is you look at what Adobe After Effects Production Bundle cost just 4 years ago…almost exactly what the big Production Studio costs now…or more.
I can hear the marketing and sales people groaning right now about giving Photoshop away in the bundle, but it wouldn’t really be free for most people here since we already own it as a part of other suites. Heck, I bet everyone serious enough to commit to Production Studio already owns a copy of Photoshop — it would be a zero sum game for consumers and Adobe.
Wow…”everyone” huh? Again…whatever you own and whatever upgrade path you would prefer is completely wrong for someone else…the Adobe apps were bundled to get users of Adobe products to try other Adobe products with a price incentive…it’s worked. If everyone owned a copy of Photoshop…why would the full version even be a product?
Your or my or anyone’s situation on this board is not “standard” or universal. Everyone here is complaining because Adobe hasn’t catered directly to them and “people like me are the most numerous/important/professional/typical…”
Why is this such a hard concept to understand for people?
Don’t overlook the fact that many people are starting from scratch, or at the point where they’re buying a new computer to handle the demands of a video editing system, so the notion of having to buy a Mac won’t be a factor for everyone. With the production Studio Premium being $400 more than FCP, some will view this as a $400 discount on the price of a new Mac.”
Production Studio Premium isn’t even a comparable product to FCP…Premiere Pro is. I don’t follow your economics here.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net -
The irony I find in this conversation is relateed to my expereince with FCP 5. I am an Avid DS Editor from 8 to 5, but was very intrigued with the capabilities of FCP5. After purchasing a G5 and slamming the inches of manuals…I was suprised to find out how awkward and difficult it was to take a project from offline to online…a standard approach at the production facility I work at. It sounds like PP2 and FCP5 share a weakness in the media management/ upresing areas. Its a shame. They both have so much to offer (PP2 intergration with AE7) and FCP5(interface design and recent ability enhancements)….yet I wouldnt touch either with a ten foot pole due to basic limitations that professionals need on a daily basis
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[lasvideo] “I was suprised to find out how awkward and difficult it was to take a project from offline to online…a standard approach at the production facility I work at.”
This is a legitimate point and it certainly makes sense that PPro doesn’t work for this application.
However, I really see offline as being something being relegated rather quickly to history and I think that the assertion that Adobe will burn in the eternal fires of market obliviousness due to their lack of focus on it is a little over the top.
The interesting thing is that unless Avid makes their media storage more affordable…their customers will have been some of the first people to offline on a dektop computer…and also the last.
TimK,
Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net
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