Which is better Sony Vegas Pro 10 or Final Cut Pro X

[Stephen Mann]

“I’m a video editor that use Sony Vegas Pro 10. I’ve been editing with this software since version 9. My question is should I switch from Sony Vegas to Final Cut Pro X, or should I continue to use Sony Vegas?”

You ask this on a Sony Vegas user’s group and expect a pro-FCP reply?

First. FCP-X is not FCP. You cannot edit an FCP project on FCP-X. The User Interface in FCP-X is not the same as FCP.

The “Industry Standard” depends on which industry you are talking about. Most job postings for editing projects specify the editing program that the job poster is familiar with. No consideration to what the end-product will be, just an emphasis on the tools. As it if really matters what brand of hammer the carpenter uses.

On the other hand, If I need an editor to help me with projects, I will look for Vegas editors simply because I can recover from any screw-ups that the hired editor makes.

So, if you are looking to engage the film industry, they tend to gravitate to one of Avid, FCP7, or Premiere Pro – because that’s what they started with and/or that’s what they were told is the industry “Standard”. Again, the focus is on the tool, not the results.

Remember, FCP-X is not FCP-7. Learning FPC-X is, in my opinion, a waste of time. Avid probably has the steepest learning curve and a price to match. Premiere Pro also has a steep learning curve and almost as-steep entry price.

So, to better advise you, you should first define what you want to do.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com

[Phil Seymour]

Stephen… that was one of the best assessments I have read!

[Al Bergstein]

I am a small independent video producer who has used FCP and Vegas extensively in the last two years. The issue of going to FCPX is highly controversial in the FCP camp, because it is not a professional tool at this point in time. It is really an upgrade to Apple’s consumer product. Why Apple did this, is the subject to a lot of debate. But the professionals out there currently are primarily using FCP 7 (otherwise known as FCP Studio, which includes a very high end color grading tool, and other relatively decent tools). FCP also has a huge world of add ons, more than Vegas, or Adobe, for that matter, though Adobe is catching up quickly. Apple has cultivated those companies, up to now. The niche companies that Hollywood high end production companies need to really round out the tools for massive, complex, multi-person/multi-team production work. The difference is that Hollywood has specialists for every single job, and they all spend all day on the tools, and need a lot of add ons that we just don’t need, because the budgets don’t allow it. We have some great add ons, Boris, VASST, etc, but not even close to the Apple world.

Many, including myself, are migrating to Adobe, which is also a complex tool, but not yet “industry standard”. That name is reserved for Avid and FCP, at this point, but there have been some notable “hollywood” films cut on Adobe. adobe seems to be targeting the special effects industry as their way in. The vast bulk of current FCP users seem to be ‘staying put’, so your opportunity for jobs is in the current product that is in wide spread use, not FCPX. I would not suggest wasting any time with that product, if your goal is a job in the industry.

That being said, I find I use Vegas far more than I ever used FCP. FCP forces you to transcode every bit of video to their proprietary codec, Prores. It is much faster, read Time=Money, to use Vegas. Vegas can do 90% or more of what FCP can do, especially in the day to day cut and run world of inexpensive video production. Add Sound Forge or Protools and your Windows machine is totally capable of competing for most jobs. But it’s not FCP, in that the criteria for getting work is FCP knowledge. Most FCP editors I’ve talked with either dismiss Vegas out of hand, as an amateur product, or don’t even know it exists. Seriously. And 100% of the ones I’ve had say those things to me have never tried it, because I ask them that.

The wildcard for me is Adobe. A much more complex product, but it too does not need to be transcoded if you want to simply stay with your footage (I use a Canon Xf300 to shoot, so I shoot in an very good codecc that is 4:2:2 out of the camera, why I should transcode is beyond me). Many of the FCP editors on the boards around the world are starting to migrate to Adobe, myself included. I have it on order now, waiting on disks, as downloading the entire Adobe suite, even on cable modem,takes days. (just joking). But Adobe is playing for keeps, and wants that market really badly. They now have a product that can actually seriously compete for major motion pictures, and they integrate well with two of the other major tools out there,Photoshop and Illustrator. Then add the specific video add on tools that Adobe throws into the suite, and there is no doubt that Apple will have to work hard to stay on top, and they don’t seem to be willing to do that.

So, you are in a good position. Keep your Vegas skills up, buy Adobe and learn that, or Avid, both run on your Windows machine. For instant gratification, without buying a Mac, I guess I would choose AVID, if I lived in LA and wanted to find a job quickly. Maybe see if you can buy coffee for a few hiring editors to pick their brains.

Lastly, the world of video editing, because of Apple’s dominance, is very Mac centric. Do not dismiss getting a Mac, if you want to break into this field, but to professionally edit on a Mac, you really need a MacPro, the most expensive machine out there. The other machines are not really able to keep up, (I own a state of the art 2009 laptop, and it is dismally slow at rendering or transcoding),though the latest top of the line Mac laptops can do the job, but those too, are very expensive. And never, ever be dismissive about the Mac to these folks, they are a religious cult that cannot be swayed in their belief that Apple is superior to Windows in every conceivable way. Many of them have never used Windows 7, but why should I be surprised…(G).

Alf

[John Rofrano]

I couldn’t say it any better than Stephen and Al already have. FCP X is not FCP. If you are looking to gain skills as an FCP editor, FCP X is not the way to do it. They are two totally different animals. As Al said, to be an FCP editor you need to purchase FCP Studio ($1,000) and a MacPro. If you don’t plan on buying a Mac then this whole conversation is moot since FCP/FCP X only runs on a Mac.

BTW: If you asked the same question on an FCP forum right now they would probably tell you to buy Adobe, Avid, or Vegas. lol.

My advice… keep Vegas Pro and stay happy (and more productive). 😉 (this is the Vegas forum after all)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Al Bergstein]

Not to beat a dead horse, but the only reason I find to use FCP is that there are so many other FCP users out there, that when I need to work with one, it is vastly easier to just say, yes, I have FCP, send me the files (=work). I consider it just another tool in my toolbox, no different than a saw or a hammer in the carpenter world. But a very complex saw that is not normally needed in my day to day work. But when I’m hired on a crew, then the saw is needed, and I say, sure I’ll bring the specialty saw you all use. Heck I’m just one of the guys.

Adobe is *starting* to get to that point. Vegas, like I say, doesn’t have a lot of champions in my neck of the woods, just me, and one or two others. But I champion it whereever I go. Except cocktail parties. Then when the *oh so smart* bring up the inevitable question, “You use FCP don’t you?” I just shrug and say, “sure”. They never need to know…because they really don’t want to. (G)

By the way, as to add on’s. I continue to find that VASST’s suite that I recently bought is really a great add on tool. I use it every day I edit. Nice work John.

Alf

[John Rofrano]

[Al Bergstein] “By the way, as to add on’s. I continue to find that VASST’s suite that I recently bought is really a great add on tool. I use it every day I edit. Nice work John.”

Thanks Al, I appreciate it. If you have any ideas on how to improve it or features you’d like to see, I’m always willing to listen.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Al Bergstein]

I’d really like to see some modern lower thirds. Clean, more an indie look than broadcast sports, which is what most of Vegas’ quite data ones seem to me. I guess i just got to do my own, or buy them elswehere?

Alf

[John Rofrano]

[Al Bergstein] “I’d really like to see some modern lower thirds. Clean, more an indie look than broadcast sports, which is what most of Vegas’ quite data ones seem to me. I guess i just got to do my own, or buy them elswehere?”

Have you looked at the VASST GrafPaks? Is there something more you’d like to see? (we can always make more… 😉 )

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dave Haynie]

[Al Bergstein] “Lastly, the world of video editing, because of Apple’s dominance, is very Mac centric. Do not dismiss getting a Mac, if you want to break into this field, but to professionally edit on a Mac, you really need a MacPro, the most expensive machine out there. The other machines are not really able to keep up, (I own a state of the art 2009 laptop, and it is dismally slow at rendering or transcoding),though the latest top of the line Mac laptops can do the job, but those too, are very expensive. And never, ever be dismissive about the Mac to these folks, they are a religious cult that cannot be swayed in their belief that Apple is superior to Windows in every conceivable way. Many of them have never used Windows 7, but why should I be surprised…(G).”

I might wait on that a bit, at least before dropping five-grand or more on a MacPro. Specifically, where in the world is Apple actually going with this all. A year ago, everything Al said here was not only true, from the MacHead prespective, but in general, yeah — the whole Apple ecosystem was very much a leading one in pro video, a must-have in some circles.

But this latest set of moves suggests things may be changing. They haven’t updated the MacPro in over a year. Will there be another MacPro? At present, Apple’s pro market has been slowly shrinking, while their consumer market is growing, fast, as iMacs and iBooks enjoy the iOS coat-tail effect (I personally know two individuals who traded in their PCs for Apple Mac PCs, once they fell in love with the iPhone).

They’ve turned FCP Pro from a dated but professional application into a prosumer (at best) app with a few features (64-bit, better multithreading, 4K support) that FCP 7 users really want, everyone on pretty much every other platform already has, and heck, stuff that was in Vegas back in 2008 and 2009.

And they’ve also, apparently, killed the other suite tools: Color, DVD Studio Pro (which was never updated for Blu-ray, if that’s important to you), and SoundTrack Pro. Motion and Compressor live on, as separate apps, for now.

Of some concern to larger scale FCP houses, Apple’s also discontinued Final Cut Server and some other pro-level tools.

Another thing: these are only available in the Mac App Store. And in a very consumery way. Most professional applications are sold primarily as upgrades for existing users, not so much new users. There are no upgrades in the App Store, at least not to date. So at least at this point, it looks as if every FCP seat will be full price going forward. FCP X is officially the upgrade not only for Final Cut Pro 7, but Final Cut Express… and may favor the latter’s typical use more than the former’s.

And, as everyone knows, Apple’s in transition, with SJ taking a step back from daily leadership. My suspicion — this was planned some time ago, in order to make everything as smooth as possible, and this step back from the pro market is very intentional, not some last minute stumble by Jobs to be corrected by the new guy. But only time will tell.

Of course, it’s ALWAYS best to wait on buying into technology into you absolutely need it. If an FCP rig is needed today for real work reasons, buy it — assuming that work is sufficient to pay it down with in the year (Section 179 for taxes, etc). If not, doesn’t hurt to wait… particularly since it’s entirely unknown just where Apple’s going. And if they really are leaving the pro market behind, since Apple’s the only official Mac PC vendor, hardware will be left behind, regardless of the existing Apple-friendly video industry.

-Dave

[John Rofrano]

[Dave Haynie] “I personally know two individuals who traded in their PCs for Apple Mac PCs, once they fell in love with the iPhone”

lol… are you sitting down?… Cuz’ now you know three… me! :-O

I bought an iPad 2 about a month ago and I was totally floored by its brilliant simplicity. I went to set up my email and it asked me for my userid and password and the next thing I saw was my email! (Imagine that!!!)

What about the other 6 screens that Window seems to need to do the same? Where was the screen that asked for my incoming mail server, or my outgoing smtp server, or if I want to use ssl or not??? Then it dawned on me… why would you ever ask the average computer user about their “smtp” server? They have no idea. Just prepend smtp to their email domain and see if it works! (and 99% of the time it does!)

Windows has forced us to become sysadmins. Apple only expects us to be end-users. Shortly after I got the iPad, I got a MacBook Pro for work and I’m loving it. I have Vegas Pro running in VMware Fusion tightly integrated with my desktop. I still use my Windows 7 workstation for heavy Vegas editing but I use the MacBook Pro for everything else. Most of the time at night I’m answering these posts from my iPad.

Here is Vegas Pro 10 running on my MacBook Pro under VMware Fusion in Unity mode (a seamless desktop experience!):

Now to be fair, I wasn’t running Windows on my laptop before. I abandoned Windows long ago and I’ve been using Ubuntu Linux for quite a while so I really switched from Linux to Mac OS X but after my experience with the iPad, I understood why Apple maintains strict control of both the hardware and the software. It’s the only way to guarantee the quality of the customer experience. The “swipe” gestures on the touchpad of the MacBook are simply brilliant. I don’t think I’ve clicked on a scroll bar in weeks (just a two finger swipe is all it takes to scroll).

So, now you know three people who switched to a Mac because of their experience on an Apple Device (iPhone, iPod, iPad). (even if it was only my laptop and not my desktop). I do believe we are living in the dawn of the “post-pc” era, where smart devices are the norm and laptops and desktops will only be used for special purposes. Only time will tell.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com