Where is my audio?

[Yigal Sela]

Hi there and wow!
I have read your posting a number of times (i wont say how many) of course the fault is mine. I understand that I am trying to run before learning to walk. I have probably jumped stages of undersdtanding the basics and that is why i have so many questions aliong the way. But I have always been a personlacking patience and wanting to get to the end ASAP.
I will try not to be to long in my reply (yours was NOT long winded), full of intersting info. some of which I hope that I understand.
If you allow me let me go point by point and along the way you will see what I dont undrstand.

I downloaded the Gspot but I really dont know whatI was doing. I take it that this program anaylyzes your files and so I took a file direct from the dv mini cam and I will try to relate to some of your ponint as far as I understood what I was reading
Yes I am in region PAL
Audio Codec AC3
Video codec MPEG 2
Video fields/dec 50.00
I couldnt see video frames progressive or interlaced but it says 25/000
with regards to domensions and video aspect ragtion…sorry I have no idea where to look.

I also dont know what are DIVX files. I thought I am working with dv files I dont know the difference

my second question is in point 2 of workflow solution you say decompress to avi uncompressed…
I have been ripping to AVI and not DIVX (avi) movie….
the interesting points that you pointoutwith exporting (which might make a differce to previous agttempts..ill have to check it out this evening) are
I had used a setting of high quality 4mb vbr 2 pass and you suggest using lo quality 6mb 2 pass
i did pass the slide rule to max
audio i used pcm
i didnt enable the multiplex dvd which i will do now
and i didnt enable upper filed first, was doing lower..wonder if that will also make a differnce
as you can see I am confused but that results from my ignorance
but i am an obstinate guy and i am determinged to get there…as always i will take the log route..i.e. instead of going and learnign step by step i will keeop ongoing by trial and error until i acdtually get it right
oh what a fool! but its hard to change your ways when you are in your mid fifties!!!
thanks for your patience and desire to help
when i win the oscar from my family for the reuslting videos ill dedicate it to you!!!
take care

Yigal

[Vincent Rosati]

lol. I’m throwing so much information at you, I feel kinda’ bad. You’re getting it, though! 🙂

Looks like the DIVX issue was a red herring. It was mentioned earlier in the thread.
It appears that Premiere won’t read AC3 audio. Perhaps installing Main Concept MPEG Pro would enable this. It might be worth looking into.
https://www.mainconcept.com

50 Fields/Sec. indicates that the video is interlaced. Also, the ‘I/L’ under the Pics/s section indicates this. GSpot uses “flags” to identify the spec’s of a file, they simply may be absent from your file. No big deal.

Dimensions and Aspect Ratios would be found under Video, in the ‘d’ portion of GSpot’s interface. Mostly, you would want to know if the file is 4:3 or 16:9 (Full screen or Widescreen).

Based on you description, you have MPEG2 video (codec) of the DV frame size. This is typical and good. I initially assumed you were working with the DV video codec.

Decompressing the MPEG2 video to AVI uncompressed not only allows you to import your audio, but also allows for smoother playback during editing by reducing strain on your processor.

Increasing the bitrate from 4MB/s to 6MB/s will improve quality, but will not remove compression artifacts. Earlier I mentioned that you may be seeing DV compression artifacts. This was incorrect. However, now that we’ve identified your codec as MPEG2, I will say that you may be seeing MPEG compression artifacts – which are similar.

Since you are in a PAL TV region, you should be using Upper Field First (or, TFF as it is identified by GSpot). This is set in Premiere’s project settings when the project was created. Correcting the field order would make a big improvement in the quality of your video.
If you ever need to change a project setting that cannot be changed (such as the Field Order), simply create a new project with the desired settings than import the old project into the new one.

Hey, I learned most of this stuff through trial and error. It’s too bad we have to deal with these long rendering times, in video, just to find out we could have done it better.
In video, it seems like there is always a better way.?

Wait ’till you start messing with After Effects. 🙂

Thanks for the dedication! 🙂

Vince

~The files are INSIDE the computer?

[Yigal Sela]

Hi Vincent,
As I mentioned, I am an obstinate but dedicated 50+….bad ahbbits are hard to change, but as a marathon runner in the past, the ability to stick in there and stamina is nor problem. I once again have to thank you for your patience and will to help me..in thisshort time I have already picked up lots of useful points and info. from you.

This week end I am going to dedicate a few hours to put in practise all that you recommended. Last night I got home late and did a bad thing..i tried to do a rush trial …please allow me to recall what i did and maybe you can point out where i went wrong. I have an idea but want a confirmation.

when i originally edited the film anfter importing the ripped files as .avi I then went to File-export-Export to DVD
Burn to disc, did the settings etc. PAL DV high quality 6mb audio acm quality 5.0 (which autmoatcally changed the seeting to custom) tv pal and lower field first….

last night when trying out what you suggested i i wnet to the original saved project went via file- and the e3xport via adobe encoder, arrived at the seeting setc. and filled in excatly as you prescribed (including high field first, lower quality setting enabling multiples dvd setting, and then was asked to save it under a name…i changed the pronect name and it saved it in a different place. thats okay.
when it finished rendering it finished 99.98% (ther were maybe 15 frames left)and it did nothing. so after half an hour i forecably closed it, went to where it was saved (as a mpeg movie) but when i tried to open it with Adobe Premier in order to go through the burnuing process i couldnt import it. i then went to nero and it also didnt recognize the project.
My question is..should i within the project after editing save it under the same name as the original project and then after rendering go though the burning process with premiere but this time going file export to dvd? wont this make it go through yet again an encoding process. as always im sorry if this sounds muddled…ifyou stillhave the patience I ll get there eventually and will be in debt for ever 🙂
have a good day

Yigal

[Yigal Sela]

Hey there
exscuse my long winded muddled mail from earlier
after rereading and re rreadign your advice and looking at the premier commands (and a little bible ofpremier thati picked up on mylast business trip to NYC) tell me if the following is more or less what you were suggesting.

I do the enduring process as you recommended (vis a vis the settings etc.) and save it on the desktop.
then i exit premier and go into nero and save the desktop saved file as a data dvd (and that way dont go through the nero process of re encoding etc that is in their “make a dvd” option?

is that what you were suggesting?

if so i even think i understand what to do now (:) )and i will try itout on thursday when i get back from a quick bsuines trip

take care

[Vincent Rosati]

I’m going away for a few days. I want to look at this when I return?
But, my process is to save an Encore compliant MPEG2-DVD (.mpg) file, out of Premiere.
Author in Encore, where the MPEG is split into 1 GB chunks. Than save a “DVD Folder” which contains the VIDEO_TS, the AUDIO_TS, and all of the goodies (VOBs, IFO’, BUPs).
Than burn this Encore DVD Folder as DVD-Video in Nero. Neither Nero or Encore do any transcoding.

Vince

[Yigal Sela]

Hi there

Hope your trip was fine? Business or pleasure? I would hope that at this timeof the year…it was pleasure.

When you have time I have a question (another one!) and a request.

I have got the handle of the rendering (with Premier ). My question is , if I have the time (and space on my hard disc) is ther an advantage to save the product with High Quality 2 pass 4mb vbr as opposed to low quality 2 pass 4mb vbr?

My request is…

I downloaded Encore but coudlnt find myway directly to the burning option, it kept asking about effects, editing and chapters) I finished the product in Premier (including chapters, transitions etc.) and all i want to do is burn

Could you possibly guidde through the process (blow by blow) of what to do when I open Encore i.e. how to improt project saved in premier, and what to do step by step to simply burn the rendered, ready product.

what I did was in premier, File- Export to DVD- complete all the settings and the burn to disc. The result was fair…still not as qualative as I am hoping for. Maybe my hopes are too high, thoas I have said the finished rpoduct when reviewing on the PC is of a higher qulaity (by far) then what I am getting on the DVD

BTW are you a professional, or doyou do this just for fun and happen to be so knowlegable. And if not a pro, then as a matter of interst what do you do for a living.

I work in Fund Raising for the NGO the Jewish Agency for Israel.

take care and allow me to wish you and yours a Mery Christmas and all best wished for a happy, healthy and propserous New Year

Yigal Sela

[Vincent Rosati]

Mostly a pleasure trip, family… Although, I was also scouting for a new area for me to live in.:)

Regarding the difference in quality of the High vs. Low 2 Pass 4MB VBR renders, to my understanding, is basically how much time your processor is going to spend analyzing the source.
In Adobe Media Encoder you are able to make a number of adjustments to tweak your process to fit your needs, but many settings are not available as it makes for an easier to understand interface. In Main Concept MPEG PRO you would see a ton of new options, regarding encoding. These options are automated in AME.
I’m not sure that adjusting the Quality slider affects the final file size, so much as the bitrate specification (of 4MB, in this case) does.

Encore
Creating a No Menu/Autostart Single Program DVD

Encore will encourage you to author a fully featured DVD program, that’s it’s behavior – that spunky little app!

1-Open Encore

2-File/New Project

3-File/Import as Timeline… and select your .MPG file.
  *-This adds the MPG to the Project window, and creates a Timeline file that contains the MPG.
  *-All timelines have a Chapter 1 marker added, by default. So, I’m not sure how it will handle your existing chapter markers. I usually place the markers in Encore.
  *-Notice the yellow circle on the timeline file icon, in the project window. This indicates that the timeline is the “First Play” asset in the DVD program. If you were going to create a Menu, you would probably set it as the First Play, which would be a different workflow and require a new title (above). 🙂
  *-Notice the Transcode Status field in the Project window. A status of “Don’t Transcode” indicates that MPG is compliant with Encore and will not transcode. It’s a badge of honor that says “You did it right!”, encoding, that is.

4-Select the Timeline file in the Project window and the Properties tab for that timeline will be displayed.
  *-Set the End Action of the timeline by clicking the triangle drop-down. You’ll probably want to choose Link Back To Here or *Timeline*:Chapter 1.
  *-Set the Menu Remote of the timeline by clicking the triangle drop-down. You’ll probably want to choose *Timeline*:Chapter 1.

5-Click Window/Disc tab, and the Properties tab for the disc will be displayed.
  *-Set the Title Button of the disc by clicking the triangle drop-down. You’ll probably want to choose *Timeline*:Chapter 1.

6-Check the project by clicking File/Check Project… Than click Start. With a little luck, the check will return no issues. Click Done.

7-Preview the DVD program by selecting File/Preview.
  *-Here, you can test your chapter markers. I seem to remember once having an issue using Premiere placed chapter markers in Encore. My fix was to manually reposition the markers in the Encore timeline.

8-Write the DVD program by selecting File/Build DVD/Make DVD Folder.
  *-Click through the next set of prompts, finally clicking the Build button.
  *-Assuming the MPG holds the “Don’t Transcode” status and the program fits in the disc, this step should only take a minute or two, otherwise a transcode would occur and you know how long that takes. 🙂
  *-When completed, click Okay, File/Save, and Exit.

You now have a VIDEO_TS folder that is ready for burning, as a DVD-Video disc, with your burning app.
  *-Allow the burning app to create an AUDIO_TS folder, or simply create an empty folder next to the VIDEO_TS folder, and name it AUDIO_TS (all caps).

Regarding quality, as your intent is to edit video, (I didn’t want to say this, but…) you would want a cam that doesn’t use MPEG compression. MPEG is a delivery format, I imagine that if you view the master disc it looks pretty good.
I had you decompress the MPEG as to generate a lossless copy that is in an editing format.
Many DV camcorders use DV compression, while still compressed, the quality is much higher than MPEG and was designed for editing.
Ideally, with digital processing for DVD, you would want only one-generation of quality loss, during your DVD production process. The process you have, with your cam, is a sort of two-generation loss, as the video is MPEG compressed twice – once in the master recording, than again in the encoding out of Premiere.
  *-Note: I was only guessing as to the correct field order of your PAL source material as being Top Field First (TFF). I mailed Canon, but haven’t received a response. 🙁

Possible options for improving the quality would be looking into the subjects of Deinterlacing and Deartifacting. There are many articles in the COW archive and on the web that cover these subjects.

I’m not sure about the “Effects” prompt you are getting in Encore. I’m using version 1.5, and haven’t see that feature.

I’m a “graphics guy”, primarily for print and design. My favorite application is Adobe Illustrator, which is the main tool that I use to pull a paycheck!
I’m working my way into web, and my video work is almost entirely a hobby. I just happened to have worked on a few large “motion picture” type projects that greatly accelerated my understanding of this entire process.
It was during these projects that I found CreativeCOW, specifically for help with After Effects. I found the site so helpful that I’m now inclined to return the love by helping in the forums. 🙂

Vince

[Ake Eldberg]

I’m also having problems with audio for an AVI film.

This movie is uncompressed AVI and has AC3 sound. I’m using Premiere Elements and the manual claims it can read AC3 but will only output digital stereo after editing. I actually got it to play a .vob file with sound. But not with the AVI film. When I pull the movie down to the timeline, no audio track appears, only video. Yes, the play sound while watching option is checked.

There is audio content in the file; VLC player can play it. Well, it played a few seconds before crashing…

Any ideas?

Ake