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Where is editing going
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The Montage also had a particularly unique interface. It was a film metaphor instead of the video source/record metaphor. One monitor. There was no difference between timelines and bins; bins were timelines and timelines were bins. And, they rotated. There were seven, as I recall, and you pasted from bin/timeline to bin/timeline. Sounds crazy now, but back ten it was a Godsend.
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Well perhaps. But I’m still getting nearly twice as much done in the same time I used to spend on the mechanics of editing. I’ve tried to explain why countless times – but nobody seems interested. Oddly I watched Jerry Hoffmans interview with Phil Hodgetts and Dr. Greg Smith earlier tonight and Jerry said the exact same thing. I hear it from experienced editors literally all over the world. Australia, London, Buenos Aries, and LA. Doing a web thing tomorrow with some of the editorial team for the CNN OJ retrospective airing tomorrow night – I suspect I’ll hear stories of efficiency there as well. When you hear the same thing from multiple professional sources time and time again – it starts to take on weight.
Oh and as to the main topic here – the booste I got in productivity with my new Apple SSD equipped MacBook Pro was as big as any leap I’ve ever experienced in project completion speed. It crushes what I used to see in daily editing. Now that’s largely MXF on USB-3. Maybe if you have to cut Red5k native it’s not the same. (Then again that’s kinda what proxy is for, but whatever.) YMMV for sure. But I’m super productive and delighted to be so. And so it goes.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] ” But I’m super productive and delighted to be so. And so it goes.”
Was someone saying you weren’t productive or delighted?
I don’t follow what your lamenting about NLEs not changing as fast as technology has to do with you buying a new computer.
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Cantemo Portal anyone. Works with Adobe, Apple, and Avid
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Andrew,
This entire thread is about the evolution of computer based video editing. Seems to me that an experience where investing in the latest generation of hardware has returned a much better than expected boost in productivity – is about as “on-topic” as it gets.
It adds weight to the fact that sometimes software designers are actually creating things based on what’s in their labs today – rather than exclusuvely what’s on their customers desktops today. And that’s worth understanding IMO.Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “It adds weight to the fact that sometimes software designers are actually creating things based on what’s in their labs today – rather than exclusuvely what’s on their customers desktops today. And that’s worth understanding IMO.”
Apple software designers creating things to make you buy a new computer from them? Disregarding those who have older systems? I’m not sure I’d be happy with a Company that did that. OK you’re not paying rentals, but you have to pay the “Apple Tax” to get the best out of it.
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I dunno about all that. I’m cutting in FCPX (latest version) on my 2009 Mac Pro
tower. Yeah, I’ve upgraded it, but it’s a six year old computer. In other words, I have
saved enough money by using FCX (instead of ‘paying Adobe’s rental’ over that same six years)
to buy FCPX, Motion, Compressor, AND buy a new Mac as well (ie pay the ‘Apple tax’).
So not sure you can say Apple is ‘Disregarding anyone with an older system’ as FCP X runs on a
six year old computer just fine. Now if it only ran on the new Mac Pros and laptops, I’d agree
with you.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “In other words, I have
saved enough money by using FCX (instead of ‘paying Adobe’s rental’ over that same six years)
to buy FCPX, Motion, Compressor, AND buy a new Mac as well (ie pay the ‘Apple tax’)”I know you’re not saying that the “Adobe rental” has been around for six years…but at the current rate:
$49 x 72 months = $3240
That’s assuming you didn’t just go for Photoshop ($9.99) and After Effects ($19.99 — what? The price is DOWN from its former $29/mo. The price is going DOWN, just like every other software, everywhere, from every vendor, all the time) for $28.88 x 72 months = $2079.36
vs
Master Collection CS 5 (2010, but close enough) $2599 + 1 upgrade (CS6 upgrade) @$699 = $3298
Hmmm…
So can we at least please please PLEASE agree that 6 years of Adobe rental is LESS than buying one box plus one upgrade in the same 6 years? BECAUSE IT’S LESS.
But let’s keep going.
Final Cut Studio 5 (also 2010): $1299 + the same 2 upgrades I assumed for CS @$299 (which is $598) = $1897.
But really, looking at Creative COW, it seems that most FCS users upgraded to 6 and 7 as well, so 4 x $299 = $1196, then add $1299 for the first purchase, and you’d have spent $2495.
Oops, plus $399.97 for FCPX, Motion, and Compressor, for a total of $2894.
So, yes, in round numbers, you saved $300-ish going Apple vs. Adobe. This is real money, but not enough to buy a Mac Pro…
…unless you’d have rented just Photoshop and After Effects, in which case you’d have spent as much as $800 MORE by going the Apple route.
STILL IRRELEVANT.
“Saving” by not spending means that if you’d dropped cable and gone to Netflix, you could have saved $7129 ($99*72). More than enough to buy 2 systems.
Or you could have sold one car to buy a cheaper one…or moved back in with your parents…or not have gone to college.
But money not spent is not the same as money saved. By not buying a Tesla, I COULD have put down a down-payment on a million dollar oceanfront condo, but in fact, I haven’t put enough money in my pocket to buy a box of Goobers, much less a Mac Pro.
Oh wait, I forgot. You bought a Mac Pro. If you’d bought an HP, okay, about the same price. But if you’d have bought a Dell (maybe not great advice in 2009, but I’m genuinely impressed with them now), you’d have saved the very real Mac Tax — potentially wiping out EVERY DIME of savings vs. your all-Apple scenario!!!!
I of course concede that the Dell can’t run FCPX, but you and David were talking about the Mac tax, so let’s talk about the Mac Tax. You simply can’t make the case that Mac + Apple software costs less than Windows computer + Adobe software.
This is true both because of the very real Mac tax, and because you haven’t done the actual math on how much you’ll spend over a given span with Adobe software.
So, let’s sweep all this palaver off the table, and what have we got?
— That if you’d been “renting” the full boat of Adobe software for 6 years, you’d have paid LESS than if you bought 1 CS box plus 1 upgrade.
PAID LESS FOR RENTAL.
AND….any savings by going all-Apple vs. full Adobe would be wiped out by the Mac tax….
AND….there’s a pretty big swing in Adobe’s favor if you’re just renting PS + AE.
…and really, being really honest (HEY DENNIS LOOK OVER THERE) that APPEARS to be what most people here have been working with.
And yet…
THIS IS ALL RIDICULOUS. Buy whatever the hell you want. Don’t buy whatever the hell you want.
Just please don’t wave your hand over either the overwhelming expense of Adobe rental or the overwhelming savings of Apple stuff, because in more circumstances than not, it’s just not true.
This probably looks like a monkey typed it, but I’ve spent all the time editing that I’ve got before Monday drops another safe on my head. And yes, I edit these things. LOL
I’ll also let you or anyone else spending their own money have the last word.
In any case, when we’re talking about something, let’s talk about what we’re talking about. If we’re just gonna fling cliches and half-truths at each other, we might as well just run for office. LOL We’ll make plenty to cover any route we feel like taking.
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[Tim Wilson] “Oh wait, I forgot. You bought a Mac Pro. If you’d bought an HP, okay, about the same price. But if you’d have bought a Dell (maybe not great advice in 2009, but I’m genuinely impressed with them now), you’d have saved the very real Mac Tax — potentially wiping out EVERY DIME of savings vs. your all-Apple scenario!!!!”
Is there a “real Mac Tax”? Look here: https://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple-mac-pro-can-build-better-cheaper-pc-diy-style/
Granted this may be slightly dated info, but it seems you’re doing an Apples to Orange comparison. (pun intended). I just don’t buy that Macs are more expensive considering quality of components and actually specs. Yes you can buy cheaper PCs, but often there is a component of lesser quality that gets you that price cut.
Also, wouldn’t it make more sense to look at 6 years in the future? The past is the past. Over the next 6 years FCP X would create substantial savings over Adobe, period. And I don’t know how you’re going to edit with Photoshop and After Effects alone. So really you should only be looking at $50/month. Over 6 years that totals $3600 versus what would seemingly be $400 for FCPX, Motion, Compressor.
Do I think price should be the primary comparison between the two? Nope. But FCP X does have a substantial advantage in that area.
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[Bill Davis] “This entire thread is about the evolution of computer based video editing. Seems to me that an experience where investing in the latest generation of hardware has returned a much better than expected boost in productivity – is about as “on-topic” as it gets.”
When you said the following earlier…
[Bill Davis] “But who is imagining any new editing possibilities to go with all the new tech? Anyone? Or is editing as it happened in 1995 – but moved into a rental cloud – the best we can look forward to as an industry?”
… I thought you were trying to prompt discussion about non-tech advancements/changes in editing which is why your laptop comment confused me.
[Bill Davis] “It adds weight to the fact that sometimes software designers are actually creating things based on what’s in their labs today – rather than exclusuvely what’s on their customers desktops today. And that’s worth understanding IMO.”
I’d change that “sometimes” to “many times”. I think it’s rather routine for software in the lab to push limits and then be dialed back to a more stable, for lack of a better term, configuration for public release. It wasn’t that long ago where off the shelf hardware wasn’t up to the task at all so purpose built hardware had to be created in tandem with the software. Everyone who had a computer with a DV or MPEG2 hardware decoder so you could playback DV or DVDs please raise your hand.
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