What file format to use – will end up as WMV stream online

[Ed Dooley]

A number of compression apps will compress one file to a number of data rates as separate files. On the Mac, Compression Master does WMV MBR encodes, I think Squeeze does too, but there were some issues a while ago about whether the encoded files from Squeeze were really compliant MBR files.

1-Always export as either uncompressed (if you have the hard drive space), or export as a reference file (still uncompressed) for the highest quality compressed file.
The export as reference only works if you’re doing the compression on the same computer you export from. If you’re moving the exported file to another computer, export as self-contained. Compressing a file twice is a no-no if you can avoid it.
2-If you’re compressing on a PC use WME (there might be others I’m not aware of-maybe Squeeze for PC?). On a Mac, CM3 or look into Squeeze. Use AVI UC for WME or QT UC for Mac apps (or reference file if you use the same Mac as the FCP export).
3-I don’t think so. WME has the MBR option, and Flip4Mac has it planned, but not available yet.
HTH,
Ed

[TJMaclay] “I am editing in FCP for projects that will end up on a streaming server. This will NOT be used as progressive download, but rather a true streaming server. I need the final file to be WMV and encoded at multiple bit rates for different connection speeds.

My first question would be this. Once I edit my project in FCP, what would be the ideal format to export to initially? I want a format that is better than the highest quality I would stream at (384K), but not so high quality (uncompressed AVI) that it takes an eternity to export.

My second question. How would you recommend I encode for multiple bit rates? I have now used Windows Media Encoder on the PC and it works fine. It works great, but only accepts AVI, WMV or MPG. This means I would need to choose one of these three formats in FCP to export to.

My third question. Is there a way to export directly from FCP to WMV and have the option to encode at multiple bit rates? I own Flip4Mac Studio Pro, so I can export many different ways to WMV from FCP, but I do not see multiple bit rates.

The caveat here, I’m still very new to this stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If this is posted in the wrong forum or a forum that is not as ideal, please accept my apologies, let me know, and I’ll re-post in another more fitting forum.”

[Todd Beabout]

Sorenson Squeeze is a great program, and on the PC side it has lots of WMV options. I use it every day.

I usually export my video from FCP using Sorenson 3 codec with the settings maxed out on quality, and I go ahead and re-size the video to 320×240. I personally would rather let FCP do the scaling, and going uncompressed may also lead to problems if you need to further compress it on a computer that may not have your particular uncompressed codec. For example, I could NOT kick out an uncompressed QT and give that to my Squeeze box, because it is a PC and does not have the Apple Uncompressed codec obviously.

Good luck.

-Todd Beabout
Vazda Studios

[Ed Dooley]

What? I export uncompressed QTs from FCP all the time and put them right into Procoder on a PC, nothing special except QT Pro on it. As for scaling, some compressors scale better than others, and FCP isn’t considered very good at scaling. depending on your compressor, I would consider doing it there.
Ed

[Todd Beabout] “Sorenson Squeeze is a great program, and on the PC side it has lots of WMV options. I use it every day.

I usually export my video from FCP using Sorenson 3 codec with the settings maxed out on quality, and I go ahead and re-size the video to 320×240. I personally would rather let FCP do the scaling, and going uncompressed may also lead to problems if you need to further compress it on a computer that may not have your particular uncompressed codec. For example, I could NOT kick out an uncompressed QT and give that to my Squeeze box, because it is a PC and does not have the Apple Uncompressed codec obviously.”

[Bret Williams]

Uncompressed would not be a codec by it’s very definition of COmpressionDECompression. I agree all that would be needed is QT just because it would be in a QT wrapper.

[Todd Beabout]

I believe it is actually called a “component”, although on Apple’s own website they refer to it as “10-bit Uncompressed 4:2:2 codec”.

In MY experience, which is all that I can attest to, this type of file will not work with SORENSON 3 on a PC, which is what I mentioned that I use. (NOT Procoder…) There may be different components installed with different compression software, I don’t really know. My version of Sorenson, or the version of QT on that box, or many other variables could affect compatibility.

I also like to scale coming out of FCP because I like to see a “high-rez” version of the file at the size that it is ending up before I compress it for comparison. Looking at a 720×486 uncompressed QT file and comparing that to a 320×240 highly compressed file just doesn’t help me find the right compression settings. But hey, to each his own. I also do happen to trust FCP’s scaling (which was greatly improved in the latest version) over Sorenson Squeeze. I’ve heard the scaling compared negatively to high end compositing apps like After Effects, but not to desktop encoding applications. But again, to each his own.

To Travis I’d say take a file and export it both uncompressed and a few other ways and compare your results. That is the best way to learn, and you will feel solid about your knowledge.

Just my $.02

-Todd Beabout
Vazda Studios

[Ed Dooley]

Something else must be going on. I have Squeeze 4.3 on my PC (as well as Procoder, Cleaner, and TMPGEnc) and I just put a QT file exported from FCP
right into Squeeze. There was an issue with Squeeze 4 importing QT’s that didn’t have the .mov extension, but I thought it was fixed. This from Jerry Hoffman
here on the COW “All QT movies must have the .mov extension at the end of their names in order for Squeeze to import them. Not a real problem, but will be addressed in an update according to Sorenson.”
Ed

[Todd Beabout] “I believe it is actually called a “component”, although on Apple’s own website they refer to it as “10-bit Uncompressed 4:2:2 codec”.

In MY experience, which is all that I can attest to, this type of file will not work with SORENSON 3 on a PC, which is what I mentioned that I use. (NOT Procoder…) There may be different components installed with different compression software, I don’t really know. My version of Sorenson, or the version of QT on that box, or many other variables could affect compatibility.

I also like to scale coming out of FCP because I like to see a “high-rez” version of the file at the size that it is ending up before I compress it for comparison. Looking at a 720×486 uncompressed QT file and comparing that to a 320×240 highly compressed file just doesn’t help me find the right compression settings. But hey, to each his own. I also do happen to trust FCP’s scaling (which was greatly improved in the latest version) over Sorenson Squeeze. I’ve heard the scaling compared negatively to high end compositing apps like After Effects, but not to desktop encoding applications. But again, to each his own.

To Travis I’d say take a file and export it both uncompressed and a few other ways and compare your results. That is the best way to learn, and you will feel solid about your knowledge.”

[Todd Beabout]

I think you are right, Ed. I had to “squeeze” a spot this morning, and I tried out the uncompressed QT again. It would not work, but I don’t think the file had the .mov extension. Perhaps we should update the Squeeze version we are running and see if that was fixed. I will try again after adding the .mov.

-Todd Beabout
Vazda Studios

[Ed Dooley]

I think it was an issue with v4. We have 4.3 and it works fine, so somewhere in between they must have fixed it.
Ed

[Chris Paul]

Just wondering if it wouldn’t be simpler to export from FCP directly into WM9 via Flip4Mac. I send 384k WMV’s to my customers every day this way and they love it. Since Flip4Mac works as a quicktime plugin you can also use Compressor to batch process if you prefer.

Chris Paul
POV

[Ed Dooley]

Yes it would. Quite often though, I need to keep working in FCP while encoding, so I’ll export out of FCP, compress in Compression Master,
and edit another sequence in FCP at the same time. I also like the preview and filters available in compressors.
Ed

[Post Office Video] “Just wondering if it wouldn’t be simpler to export from FCP directly into WM9 via Flip4Mac. I send 384k WMV’s to my customers every day this way and they love it. Since Flip4Mac works as a quicktime plugin you can also use Compressor to batch process if you prefer.”