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  • What do I need for HD suite

  • TommyG

    April 4, 2005 at 3:53 pm

    I’ve posed this question in the HD forum too….

    We have to get into HD, our clients are circling around the subject. Currently we have a dual 2gig G5 mac. Final cut pro hd.

    My questions are:

    1- What’s with all the different HD formats, are they all just flavours of the same thing :ie DVCam, DV, DVCpro (all kinda the same, and all deviations from the core DV format.)??

    2- Do i need a capture/monitoring card? Don’t the decks have firewire. or FW800? Are those “ports’ not fast enough? Does one capture via a port at all, or is it an analogue capture, via component video/xlr audio?

    3-Do I need a RAID drive system to keep up with such large data-rate files? Or is it more of a “file transfer from data on tape” ie non-realtime capture?

    4-Once it’s in my system, and on my timeline, will I have any realtime playing and previewing? Why only Panasonic’s version?

    5- Do i need a big Hi-res HD Broadcast monitor, with some sore of digital input? or will the capture card offer analogue out to standard component CRT monitor? Or do i loop through the deck? What deck?

    6- Simple to down-convert for SD tape. ie TX still eventually on beta-SP. I use a AJA LA for this analogue out/in.

    7- Disk sapce consumption? Compressions?

    8- General choking of system with such large data? Lots of “preparing window for display” etc?

    9 – Output to HD deck for archive/client copy?

    10 Buy now or wait till after NAB? Tiger and next FCP?

    Sorry for so many Newbie Questions. A search gave me too many results, so i thought a direct 101 in HD was best request.

  • gary adcock

    April 4, 2005 at 4:45 pm

    [TommyG] “We have to get into HD, our clients are circling around the subject. Currently we have a dual 2gig G5 mac. Final cut pro hd. “

    You need to hire someone… if your a Pro they are way too many issues that may crop up to just
    figure it out. They will be session at NAB on this ( I am doing 2 of them) pay the money..
    A Few hundred dollars before you start will save you 10’s of thousands of dollars later!

    and the first questions you should be asking is:

    What is my deliverable?
    from this question all of the others can be determined.

    gary adcock

    Studio37
    HD and Film Consultation

  • Charles Simonson

    April 4, 2005 at 6:22 pm

    Take Gary’s advice here! That, and get to know your VAR real well.

  • Torrey Loomis

    April 4, 2005 at 7:40 pm

    Tommy,

    I have listed some answers to your questions below. All of these are subject to change based on what happens at NAB…

    Tommy’s questions are:

    1- What’s with all the different HD formats, are they all just flavours of the same thing :ie DVCam, DV, DVCpro (all kinda the same, and all deviations from the core DV format.)??

    Check out Marco’s excellent discussion of these and other codecs here:

    https://codecs.onerivermedia.com/

    There is a great section on the DV codecs under the 4:2:2C section. Compare the DVCPRO HD image at 1080i to an uncompressed 1080i image. You’ll see some major differences.

    2- Do i need a capture/monitoring card? Don’t the decks have firewire. or FW800? Are those “ports’ not fast enough? Does one capture via a port at all, or is it an analogue capture, via component video/xlr audio?

    You’ll need a capture card to get uncompressed video via HD-SDI. Panasonic’s 1200a VTR can be equipped with a firewire 400 port which allows direct transfer from the deck to FCP. The new HDV cameras can be plugged in via Firewire and used with iMovie HD and with Final Cut Express HD, but FCP hasn’t been updated yet with this capability.

    Or, with the HDV cameras you can run the analog signal into a AJA converter and a Flying Cow box and convert to HD-SDI signal for capturing to a card.

    3-Do I need a RAID drive system to keep up with such large data-rate files? Or is it more of a “file transfer from data on tape” ie non-realtime capture?

    DVCPRO HD does not require RAID speeds, but everything else does. You can check out datarates here:

    https://www.silverado.cc/drivespeeds.html

    4-Once it’s in my system, and on my timeline, will I have any realtime playing and previewing? Why only Panasonic’s version?

    You can have realtime playing and previewing with uncompressed, too. However–that will drop off if you start to add multiple layers of video and graphics.

    5- Do i need a big Hi-res HD Broadcast monitor, with some sore of digital input? or will the capture card offer analogue out to standard component CRT monitor? Or do i loop through the deck? What deck?

    Sony PVM series monitors can be equipped with all sorts of input cards that will take the SDI signal out of the capture card. Or, you can get one of the many flavors of HD-SDI –> DVI converter boxes that allow an SDI signal to be sent to a 23″ Apple Cinema Display. Definitely wait to see what’s new at NAB on this issue.

    6- Simple to down-convert for SD tape. ie TX still eventually on beta-SP. I use a AJA LA for this analogue out/in.

    Many of the capture cards will now downconvert HD to SD. Plug in your Beta deck and record directly from this source.

    7- Disk sapce consumption? Compressions?

    You’d have to be more specific on this–and this really depends on what format you are using. Capturing uncompressed from Sony HDCam will take up a lot more room than native DVCPRO HD.

    8- General choking of system with such large data? Lots of “preparing window for display” etc?

    Hasn’t been an issue on the projects we’ve worked on.

    9 – Output to HD deck for archive/client copy?

    Sure beats keeping all that stuff on the RAID…

    10 Buy now or wait till after NAB? Tiger and next FCP?

    Definitely wait until NAB. There is absolutely no reason not to wait two weeks to see what might be forthcoming at the show. Even if you ordered a complete HD suite the fulfillment time alone could take 1-2 weeks.

    Torrey Loomis
    President – Silverado Systems
    Apple Pro Video VAR
    1108 Sandwick Way
    Folsom, CA 95630
    (916) 806-7189
    tloomis@silverado.cc
    https://www.Silverado.cc

  • TommyG

    April 5, 2005 at 7:05 am

    I’ll be watching NAB from the other side of the planet. Thank you for your patient responses. Tommy

    dual G5 2.0
    FCP 4.5
    OSX 10.3.4
    1.5Gb RAM
    QT 6.5.1
    MedeaRaid 250GB
    AJA LA

  • walter biscardi

    April 5, 2005 at 3:32 pm

    First off, hire a trusted VAR such as ProMax or if you’re in the southeast, WH Platts. There’s no subsitute for a good VAR to properly configure your system and then maintain it for you. Based on your questions posed, you have a lot of research and studying to do before you jump in to HD fulltime.

    [TommyG] “1- What’s with all the different HD formats, are they all just flavours of the same thing :ie DVCam, DV, DVCpro (all kinda the same, and all deviations from the core DV format.)?? “

    Nope, DVCPro HD and HDCAM are two distinct formats. Within those there are variations of the flavors and of course the frame rates are completely different from SD. Do some research on the variations.

    [TommyG] “2- Do i need a capture/monitoring card? Don’t the decks have firewire. or FW800? Are those “ports’ not fast enough? Does one capture via a port at all, or is it an analogue capture, via component video/xlr audio? “

    Capture monitoring card is preferred. The Panasonic 1200A has a Firewire connection as an option. I capture from the deck via Firewire, but output back to the deck via HD-SDI from my Kona 2.

    [TommyG] “3-Do I need a RAID drive system to keep up with such large data-rate files? Or is it more of a “file transfer from data on tape” ie non-realtime capture?”

    FW 800 is good enough for DVCPro HD codec only. If you go to 8 or 10bit uncomrpessed HD, you must have a very fast array. My Medea FCR2X (Fibrechannel) runs about 325-350mb/sec.

    [TommyG] “4-Once it’s in my system, and on my timeline, will I have any realtime playing and previewing? Why only Panasonic’s version? “

    Realtime playback of all formats is only achievable through capture cards such as those from AJA and Blackmagic. DVCPro HD is a compressed format and can play without any additional hardware.

    [TommyG] “5- Do i need a big Hi-res HD Broadcast monitor, with some sore of digital input? or will the capture card offer analogue out to standard component CRT monitor? Or do i loop through the deck? What deck? “

    You do NOT want to color correct your HD image via a downconverted SD signal. The range of colors and chroma alone in HD is significantly more than SD. You want either a multiformat monitor or a full HD monitor. I own the Sony PVM20L5/1 which is a multiformat 20″ monitor. It take the component feed directly out of my Kona 2 and displays the HD image. Your choice of deck depends on what format you’re going to work with. My clients are working with the Varicam so I purchased the Panasonic 1200A with both the HD-SDI and Firewire options.

    [TommyG] “6- Simple to down-convert for SD tape. ie TX still eventually on beta-SP. I use a AJA LA for this analogue out/in. “

    The Io LA I don’t think offers downconvert. I’m pretty sure you’ll need the Kona 2 for this.

    [TommyG] “7- Disk sapce consumption? Compressions?

    8- General choking of system with such large data? Lots of “preparing window for display” etc? “

    bigger, faster arrays run better than smaller, just barely fit all the media arrays.

    [TommyG] “9 – Output to HD deck for archive/client copy?

    10 Buy now or wait till after NAB? Tiger and next FCP? “

    Depends on the format you’re working with and what the client wants. As I noted, I go back out via HD-SDI from my Kona 2 to the 1200A and it’s a very clean master. You should try to attend NAB because there is never any one place that has so much information as NAB. It’s information overload, but at least you get the opportunity to talk to people and physically see the equipment.

    [TommyG] “Sorry for so many Newbie Questions. A search gave me too many results, so i thought a direct 101 in HD was best request.”

    I would suggest going back and reading through those posts. There is a lot of information and misinformation out there. Once you zero in on your format, read as much as you can about the equipment and HD in general.

    One thing you left off your list is a vector / waveform. Critically important for editing HD. Figure about $16,000 for that and get either Leader or Tektronix.

    Walter Biscardi, Jr.
    Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
    https://www.biscardicreative.com

    Now in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com

    “I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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