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What are you thinking about CS6?
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Yep I am with Adobe 🙂 Tod introduced me below, I decided to add a signature 😉
Can you send private messages on this forum? If so send me a link
Cheers
Dave
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David McGavran, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Engineering Manager Adobe Premiere Pro
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[Todd Kopriva] “(and a swell guy).”
Oh, I get it.
A. Swell Guy used to be David McGavrin’s radio name?
Good show!
D. Swell Guy was not as nice, though. I’m sure there’s no relation.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “. it sort of assumes I’ve finished editing before I mix (which is a poor “
While the current Adobe model does not promote easy key framing of tracks during an edit. There’s still a lot you can do with submixes and effects that are applied to either track(s) or submixes if you don’t require keyframed effects.
It’s pretty sweet.
Volume will still have to be keyframed clip by clip of the edit isn’t locked.
It’s quite fun and much more powerful than FCP7’s mixing.
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I loaded a project from 5.5 with MTS last night and it was fine. I’ll see if I can repeat the problem. Off the bat 6.0 does seem better.
Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist – FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Prohttps://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos
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Track based effects are very useful, but for me, track based volume changes are useless, as I find I edit picture and mix audio concurrently, right up to delivery.
To avoid the horror of ramping and dipping audio with a pen tool and nodes (unless fixing spikes etc.), automated changes either with an external mixer or the inbuilt faders are essential. And for this to be useful, volume changes need to be written into the clip files. Otherwise a remix is necessary every time audio is moved.
I can’t see how moving track based volume automation ‘in sync’ with clips could be a viable solution either, as clips can change tracks, depending on how the audio overlaps when placed in new positions. I could imagine sudden volume changes being an issue too.
A method of writing track volume changes into clips would work, but this is no different to mixing clip volume directly. When do you ever need to mix the silence between the clips?
Having spent the last 5 years or so mixing multiple audio ‘tracks’ real time with FCP, in my case with a Mackie Control Surface, I really do not want to go back to endless fiddling with node based audio changes and early onset RSI.
For my workflow at least, this is still a major flaw with PPro, and the only thing stopping me adopt it wholeheartedly.
Belatedly, Ken.
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[Ken Pugh] “A method of writing track volume changes into clips would work, but this is no different to mixing clip volume directly. When do you ever need to mix the silence between the clips?
“I may be misunderstanding, but from what I’ve seen, individual clip volume can be adjusted–just not from the mixer. This fits pretty well with the way I work, as I generally edit toward a fine rough mix for a approval, and then after approval, sweeten and do a final mix. Of course, I’m guessing the control surface would be out as regards clip volume, but I don’t know.
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[Ken Pugh] “A method of writing track volume changes into clips would work, but this is no different to mixing clip volume directly. When do you ever need to mix the silence between the clips?
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As I have already said, a combination of clip gain & EQ/ plugins and track & bus based mixing is ideal. I mix a broadcast doco in a day using that combination and at the same time I am creating a variety of deliverables like undipped stems, full mix and MDE. You just can’t do that with a clip based mix.So a combination is the most powerful and the important issue is that the trackbased automation can easily stick and move with clips. The ease of moving track based automation with a clip is the key.
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> I may be misunderstanding, but from what I’ve seen, individual clip volume can be adjusted–just not from the mixer.
Yes, but I haven’t yet found a way of doing this through the keyboard with a single command, as in FCP. Maybe this has changed with 6.
> So a combination is the most powerful and the important issue is that the trackbased automation can easily stick and move with clips. The ease of moving track based automation with a clip is the key.
Agreed. Could an alternative be that the clips have more than one layer of audio modification? So layer one is flat (but with volume edits for peaks or whatever), then layer two is the same, but also adds dips for a language version etc… then these audio layers are assigned to the sub mixes that require them. The sub-mixes then become stems, or English version, French version etc. The programme tracks remain to handle plug-ins, like compression (although sometimes it’s useful to be able to apply plugins on a clip basis as well). I too greatly miss the flexibility of sub-mixes from my M100 days.
Best, Ken.
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Track-based levels and automation gain have long been the default audio workflow in Avid Media Composer. It’s perfect for doing rough mixes or even a final mix if you’re not sending out to ProTools. The convenience of not having to drag tiny key frames in your timeline, or having to load every clip into a viewer is a nobrainer. Park your timeline over a clip, adjust in mixer, move to next clip, repeat. FCP never quite figured this out with all of their tweaking occurring in the viewer, and as premiere takes this particular metaphor from FCP they haven’t quite got this right yet either. However, with the attention they’re paying to avid’s actual editing tools, here’s to hoping they get audio right before too long. And that it’s a nice patch that automatically downloads to cloud customers like me!
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>The convenience of not having to drag tiny key frames in your timeline, or having to load every clip into a viewer is a nobrainer.
I’ve never had to do this in FCP, unless I wanted to, perhaps to do detailed work like fix transient peaks etc. otherwise I write audio changes direct into multiple clips simultaneously while playing the timeline – using the mixer, and an optional external Mackie mixing desk with flying faders that drop into record when you touch the faders, and drop out of record when you let go, picking up with the existing mix. Believe me if you’ve not mixed audio this way you’ve not lived! (relatively speaking). Doing mixes manually on a clip by clip basis now seems like torture.
Then if I move a bunch of clips to a new place on the timeline, the mix goes with them. That’s essentially the kind of functionality I’m personally looking for in PPro. Track based or not.
Best, Ken.
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