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weird shoes, FCPX, and the sheep barn.
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[Shawn Miller] “Maybe Slice-X could be helpful here?”
Maybe, but then I don’t have all the tools I do in Ae.
Part of what is so hard about this project is getting disparate perspectives to line up. I’m not going to lie, it’s tough if not impossible. Some of these shots are simply going to look kind of “fake”, which is OK and fits in to the theme, but it has to be a really really good kind of fake, and with Ae, I am able to use actual camera physics to get some of this stuff to (sort of) line up correctly.
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look, can we just focus on the tilde key?
Most things generally need more tilde key.https://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/628756/
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Jeremy Garchow] “[Shawn Miller] “Maybe Slice-X could be helpful here?”
Maybe, but then I don’t have all the tools I do in Ae.
Part of what is so hard about this project is getting disparate perspectives to line up. I’m not going to lie, it’s tough if not impossible. Some of these shots are simply going to look kind of “fake”, which is OK and fits in to the theme, but it has to be a really really good kind of fake, and with Ae, I am able to use actual camera physics to get some of this stuff to (sort of) line up correctly.”
Ah, gotcha’. Sorry to hear that, sounds like you’re the one that has to “make it work” – not always a fun position to be in. Do you do a lot of this kind of thing? If so, camera mapping might also save you a lot of work in trying to match perspectives. The folks providing the background plate wouldn’t even need to worry that much about shooting the correct perspective, just the (somewhat) correct height of the camera when shooting a spherical panorama. I don’t know if you’re interested, but I would be happy to provide some details on how to go about this… for future reference, of course. 🙂
Shawn
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[Shawn Miller] “I don’t know if you’re interested, but I would be happy to provide some details on how to go about this… for future reference, of course. :-)”
That sounds fantastic. Thanks so much.
editstation at gmail, if you want to do it that way.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “At it’s very essence, compositing is mostly about controlling shades of grey.”
Insightful! I shall steal this.
[Jeremy Garchow] “How about a Levels filter? Or Curves? Or a 3wayCC with luminance to get us started?”
I think you are thinking like an editor. This makes a lot of sense when you’re only applying one of each effect per clip, but it’s less clear to me as a designer and compositor how it should be handled when you require multiple effects on the same clip.
Treating a pixel-altering effect as an intrinsic property of a layer locks you into a fixed render pipeline*. Does the levels/curves/3wayCC render before or after other effects? What if you want to apply it in between other effects on the layer?
Treating as many things as effects as possible give you some easy user-controlled variability in the pipeline; you control the render order by manipulating the stacking order of effects in their control panel.
Now I am not saying you are wrong or that this problem is insurmountable — and I’d love to hear your further thoughts on it because I think your fundamental insight that you lack tools for dealing with common problems is good — but I am saying that I think NLEs and compositors handle this problem differently on purpose.
* Unless you add another UI for custom per-layer render pipeline reordering to make up for taking the property out of the “effects” segment of the pipeline — but then haven’t you just basically reinvented the effects control panel?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Franz Bieberkopf] “I think what may have changed is that the “master” window is now clearly labelled (with the project file path on a Mac) – thus even if all you have in that “master” window is the audio meters (for example), it’s still clear that it’s the “master”.”
I think I understand now. This seems to be a bit of cross-platform UI oddness. A master window seems unnatural on a Mac, but is required for an application on Windows.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “Also, while any given floating window now comes to the fore if you select it, this is not true for the “master” window – it remains in the back, forever obscured and never to be brought into view (unless you close or move windows). Again, this can be confusing if you’ve left something in it that you want brought forward (especially if you’ve forgotten that it’s the arbitrary “master window” and acts differently than all other windows).”
This is a pretty standard convention, though, isn’t it? Apple apps like TextEdit, Pages and Keynote have floating windows that can never be layered behind the main document (and that vanish when their application isn’t in the foreground).
I think the behavior is desirable, too. If you were to select the main window and it popped to the fore, then it could completely cover the floating panels, making them invisible and inaccessible via mouse. Wouldn’t losing the window entirely like that be more confusing than seeing that the floating window is obscuring some part of the main window and having to move it out of the way to access what’s underneath?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “Treating a pixel-altering effect as an intrinsic property of a layer locks you into a fixed render pipeline*. Does the levels/curves/3wayCC render before or after other effects? What if you want to apply it in between other effects on the layer?
Treating as many things as effects as possible give you some easy user-controlled variability in the pipeline; you control the render order by manipulating the stacking order of effects in their control panel.”
Absolutely. A lot of the challenges – and solutions – in compositing are about controlling the order of operations.
That and controlling shades of grey 😉
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
Walter,
[Walter Soyka] “If you were to select the main window and it popped to the fore, then it could completely cover the floating panels, making them invisible and inaccessible via mouse. Wouldn’t losing the window entirely like that be more confusing than seeing that the floating window is obscuring some part of the main window and having to move it out of the way to access what’s underneath?”
Ideally, you can cascade windows if you so desire – thus choosing them as needed. Additionally, some software has keyboard shortcuts to bring windows forward, including the ability to cycle focus – also desirable. There is no rationale in Premiere for why one window must remain “in the back” – this is most evident if the panes that it holds, for example, have been reduced to something trivial – like the audio meters (why must they be “in the back” all the time?) – and then arbitrary switched out (now, suddenly they can change layer priority).
[Walter Soyka] “Apple apps like TextEdit, Pages and Keynote have floating windows that can never be layered behind the main document”
I don’t know the other software, but TextEdit is not like this (not on mountain lion and earlier, anyway). Or I don’t know what you’re talking about.
[Walter Soyka] “This seems to be a bit of cross-platform UI oddness. A master window seems unnatural on a Mac, but is required for an application on Windows.”
I think that’s part of it – but it also seems to be suite-related (part of the way other software in the suite works). In Photoshop, for example, the “master window” has UI elements that clearly mark it as something other than just another window – there’s a functional difference being reflected visually. But even there – Photoshop doesn’t quit if I close the “main” window. In Premiere, this simply isn’t true, and if it should be true, such “special status” should be tied to the project pane, for example.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “I don’t know the other software, but TextEdit is not like this (not on mountain lion and earlier, anyway). Or I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Sure it is. Open up Text Edit, hit Cmd+T to open the fonts panel, and try to put that floating window behind the document window.
[Franz Bieberkopf] “In Premiere, this simply isn’t true, and if it should be true, such “special status” should be tied to the project pane, for example.”
Premiere is a bit different than Photoshop in that Pr can only open a single document and PS can open multiple documents — but nonetheless I’d agree that the behavior you describe is strange and unexpected.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Walter Soyka] “Open up Text Edit, hit Cmd+T to open the fonts panel, and try to put that floating window behind the document window.”
Walter,
Ah, got it.
I guess I think of the fonts panel as part of a clear hierarchy (Documents vs. Tools). It sort of explains itself, and it’s reinforced by behaviour (like Fonts hiding if TextEdit isn’t active – it’s a secondary kind of window).
There is no such explanation that means anything to a user in Premiere.
Franz.
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