War of the Worlds, Old Fogies vs. Young Idiots

[Andy Richards]

We get it already. Some of you over 50 guys are starting to feel the pressure of Gen Y willing to do your job for half what you’re used to being paid. Speaking as someone in mid forties does that mean I should feel threatened too? Or should I make G**damn sure that I am doing things that the recent college graduates can’t?
No body has said this, so I might as well. ‘Young and Hungry’ probably means cheap, but it also means willing to work hard and bring a lot of energy to the job. I’ve been on shoots where a crew member said that the union rules say that he was overdue for a break and was taking it at this particular time. That’s not what I want to hear when I’ve re-set for the 10th take on a difficult shot and all I want to do is get it. That’s where I want young and hungry over experienced anytime. Do I want young and hungry hanging the 10k light overtop of where I’m setting up? Probably not, but I do want him unloading the truck in a fraction of the time it takes a clock watcher.
Either here or somewhere else I think someone was also bringing PA jobs into this. Isn’t the PA job always considered the entry level position where if someone is not an intern they are at least doing it for minimal pay just for the chance to watch and learn? So I don’t see how looking for a young and hungry PA any different than looking for a DP with a good eye. Both are appropriate.

[David Roth weiss]

Andy,

Invariably someone always pops into these kinds of discussions with an argument that presupposes the lowest common denominator. In this case, that the lazy union guy represents the old farts, while the perfect eager to please PA who works for free to get his/her foot in the door represents all others. Trust me, most of us in this business who are in our fifties and still working did not get here by lounging around the craft services table while others did the heavy lifting.

As you know, budgets are going down these days on all but the biggest jobs, while technical demands and the knowledge to go with are increasing dramtically. So, what better time to surround one’s self with people who can get it right the first time. Unfortunately, not everyone is bright enough to understand that wisdom, and as a result I think we all suffer.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY

[Andy Richards]

David:
Yes, presupposition can be a dangerous and unfair thing. Unfortunately the example I used was someone my age or younger. Bad attitudes can come in all ages and even though I wasn’t the one hiring for that particular shoot I suppose the fact that when hiring has been my choice, I have chosen to not work with that guy again. Returning to my original point which I guess wasn’t clear, when I need experience that’s what I try to get. But when I need someone to get all the gear from the truck, set-up and lamp all the stands and get everyting powered why should I pay more for experience? It is not age descrimination even if it may work out that way.

[David Roth weiss]

I understand what you’re saying Andy with regard to “grunt work” and cheap, inexperienced labor, and your point is well taken. However, what most of us old foggies are really talking about is the many producers who often cut off their noses to spite their own productions by filling key positions with inexperienced people. These producers often find out later that by saving a few nickles upfront they’ve cost themslves many times that in redos and lengthy post-production nighmares. Meanwhile, they place their entire investment at risk. Check out my article in last month’s Cow Magazine about “working smarter.” This is all part of the same equasion in which “cheaper, faster, better” really comes down to working smarter.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY

[Andy Richards]

I don’t think we have a disagreement here. Just talking about different parts of the process and different types of jobs. I’m all for experience. Remember I’m the one who wants the guy hanging the 10k over my head to know what the safety chain is for. 😉

Not exactly off topic to say that this discussion is reminding me of a couple of guys I used to work with who as they got over 50 or so left the business because they said the day to day physical stuff was getting to them. The lucky one now produces and edits video for a government agency. I believe the other one is doing something unrelated. Most of the time it’s hard to say who the smarter one is.

[David Roth weiss]

[Andy Richards] “Remember I’m the one who wants the guy hanging the 10k over my head to know what the safety chain is for. ;)”

Andy,

Now that’s where we differ. I’m an equal opportunity employer. I’d hire a cute female grip in a short skirt for that job…

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY

[Tim Wilson]

[John Davidson] “and me saying ‘dudes, maybe the guy just wrote his post hastily and made a semantic error in judgement”. Then my age was exposed (33) and suddenly I no longer had a right to comment on the subject because I don’t know anything.”

On one hand, I’ll quote the great sage Yogi Berra, “Nobody knows anything.”

On the other hand, you’re the ONLY one who knew the truth, that the guy’s word choice was unfortunate. He replied with apologies, and said he didn’t care if you were 99 – please get in touch.

Hey, I’m 104!! Ageist bastard!!!

Anyway, my point being that anybody who offers real money for a job at The COW should be shown the benefit of the doubt, which other than you, was pretty rare.

So a gold star for the kid. At 33, you’re the same age as my beard. Seriously. But you get a gold star nonetheless.

tw

[Dean Sensui]

[David Roth Weiss] “Now that’s where we differ. I’m an equal opportunity employer. I’d hire a cute female grip in a short skirt for that job…”

Here’s where I discovered I was getting older.

I was covering a college football game when the cheerleaders wearing the usual short skirts did a human pyramid right next to me.

I looked up and thought, “If she falls she’s gonna break my neck. Why do they need to do that right here!”

Dean Sensui — Imagination Media Hawaii

[Tim Wilson]

[Dean Sensui] “I looked up and thought, “If she falls she’s gonna break my neck. Why do they need to do that right here!””

I saw the Girls Gone Wild phenomenon coming years before it was commercialized. I remember doing some commercial shoots around a huge resort. The job was videotaping signage: sponsors were paying $1 million/week for this event, and wanted to be sure that nobody put their inflatable Drambuie bottle on the quarterdeck when they paid for the marina. God forbid.

While I was standing in line at the water fountain, Betacam on the ground at my feet. young ladies walked by, lifting their shirts and hollering “Woo-hoo! Camera guy!” Many, many times a day, even when the camera wasn’t actually anywhere near me.

To which the only possible reply is “Thank you!” Which is what I said as I waved. But no point shooting stuff like that. No kidding, it’s just not professional. And frankly, just not polite.

Eventually just hollered “Thanks!” without even looking. It got embarrassing, and I really did have a ton of shooting to do. The sun was so hot I could barely breathe — half a dozen people were taken out in ambulances for heatstroke that afternoon, besides the dozens more being treated on site.

I was choking in dust, sand in my shoes, the whole bit. Carrying a BSP camera in shooting case with batteries, plus tapes, sticks, (definitely not run and gun because of the dollars at stake), blah blah blah. Genuinely one of the miserable jobs ever. The sooner I finished shooting, the sooner I could go back into the air conditioning and start getting paid for this wretched day.

As a result, the words I said most often during the shoot were….

“Pardon me miss, can you please put your top on and move out of the way of that sign?”

Tapping my foot impatiently, looking at my watch while I set up for the next shot.

The funny thing is that, ten years later, I still get mad thinking about it. Hey! Will you hurry up already?!? Not all of us are here on vacation! I’m working here, dammit!!

[Nick Griffin]

Okay David, Dean and Tim. Good to see that the thread has gone from ageism, skills and work ethics straight down into the gutter.

Problem with oogling girls is when they look straight at you and go, “Eewwww! What are YOU looking at? You’re my Dad’s age!”

Now stop being dirty old men and get back to the serious stuff… like… like… well, just get back to work.