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Wanting to do Uncompressed HD, trial by fire….
You’ve heard it all before: “I’m just getting started and would like some recommendations regarding equipment purchases to be able to handle uncompressed HD, but my budget is limited, blah, blah, blah.” I’m sorry, but that is my issue here to. I’ve been talking to a lot of people, reading a lot of forums, checking websites, etc, and I’ve ended up putting on hold the purchase of a Kona 2 card and 500GB external disk raid through a company called Pro Max. They’re quoting about 3700 dollars for both things. I was just about to call them and say go for it when suddenly I read that FCP 5 users were having major trouble importing Uncompressed 720p footage. This is what I was intending to do with the Kona 2. Anyway, I would like someone to tell me to get my head checked or tell me I’m doing the right thing. Here’s what I need to do.
Shot a short film on Varicam at various frame rates. We have footage totalling 7hrs. I can easily pull selects out of that and cut down on the time of course. I would like to do both offline and online edits on my system at home. I own a Dual 2Ghz G5, with Tiger 10.4, 3GB RAM, OLD 17″ Apple Studio Display (CRT kind). I want the best quality possible for the online. The reason being I don’t want to pay obnoxious hourly rates for a colorist, online cutter, etc, to do the same at a post house. At the same time I would like to go beyond this project and do offline/online work for clients in the future. I’m the kind of guy that loves learning from his mistakes so I don’t necessarily mind getting into things without knowing everything there is to know in advance. One issue I do foresee is the fact that the funds are a little low and I can only afford the card and Hard drives at this time. Can’t buy HD ext. monitors, HD Deck, or a full DA-AD i/o box, or other accessories like that.
What would be best for me. Kona 2 way too much for me to handle at this junction. Also would I be going in 8-bit Uncompressed or 10-bit and what is the difference if they’re both 4:2:2? Sorry to bother you forum philes with the same BS, but thank you for allowing me to post this in the first place. CIAO for now.
“He would fathom the psyche, must not confuse it with consciousness, else he vails from his sight the object he wishes to explore.” – Jung
“Everything that acts is actual.” – Jung again
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25 Replies
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before I give you a rediculous answer that will not answer your question properly, please tell me the EXACT VTR MODEL # that you plan to digitize from. Will it be a Panasonic AJ-HD1200A, or 1700A, or will it be one of the D5 VTR’s. All of this will affect my answer to you.
Bob Zelin
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Jandro
1 – ProMax is a good reseller, fair and honest.
2 – The “major trouble” is not major but it is a bug, you can work arround the issue. It just takes time. Infact if you shot your fooatge in 24p you will not seen the problem.
3 – You will need more disk space.
4 – Your CPU is fine (how much ram do you have), your OS is fine, your display is to small.
From the numbers you quoted it appears that ProMax is setting you up for DVCProHD disk storage. If you want to capture 8 bit or 10 bit you will need alot more (and faster) disk storage. Please be sure your reseller knows that you are thinking about doing uncompressed HD. You should capture 8 bit or 10 bit if you are planning extensive high end visual effects, otherwise the DVCProHD codec is very usable.
Do you have access to a 1200A for capture and layoff?
How do you plan to color correct?
I say go for it, but just plan on spending every dollar you get to aquire more equipment and training.
Fred
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First off, ProMax is one of the best VAR’s to purchase from. Fair, honest and they will take good care of you if you give them enough information to assemble the correct system.
500GB is not nearly enough storage and you will need Fibre Channel to run 8 or 10bit HD. FW 800 drives will only work for DVCPro HD.
I capture DVCPro HD via Firewire and also edit 720p 8bit uncompressed. Both look outstanding. I cut for broadcast with the DVCPro HD codec but for our film which will get a film out, I cut 8bit uncompressed.
You really have to decide what you want to do and figure aroudn $5 – 9k for 2TB minimum FibreChannel storage.
You cannot color correct your film with an SD monitor. HD has a lot more color latitude and you simply cannot see all of this correct on an SD monitor.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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OK, Jandro has not posted, and everyone else is jumping in. Jandro has stated that he wants to do uncompressed HD, but many of us seem to be guessing (as I am) that he is going to be doing a 720p Varicam job with a HD1200A VTR, which is DVCProHD, not uncompressed HD. So, if you are using a D5 VTR, my answers will be different.
ProMax – a GREAT company – will sell you a SATA solution that will consist of a Sonnet Tempo X eSATA 8 port, with 8 Hitachi SATA drives and 2 Kano Technologies 4 bay SATA enclosures – this system WILL DO UNCOMPRESSED HD, but you may (or may not) run into issues. If you are doing DVCProHD, a system like this is MORE than enough storage – particularly if you use 500 Gig drives (for 4 Terabytes of storage) – that’s a lot of storage for DVCProHD. But a safer solution is to do as Walter suggested – a Fibre Channel solution with some sort of RAID protection IF YOU ARE DOING UNCOMPRESSED HD – Walter uses Medea, I like HUGE Systems, some like Apple Xserve RAID, but they all work.
Again, if you simply list the VTR that you are going to use, it will be so much easier to say how you should proceed.
Bob Zelin
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[Bob Zelin] “a 720p Varicam job with a HD1200A VTR, which is DVCProHD, not uncompressed HD.”
Bob, I’ve just captured my entire film from the 1200A using the 8bit Uncompressed HD setting to prepare for color correction for a 35mm film out. So you can use the 1200A and also work in uncompressed HD.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Walter – how did you benefit from capturing at uncompressed 8 bit when your native footage was DVCProHD ?
bob
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[Bob Zelin] “Walter – how did you benefit from capturing at uncompressed 8 bit when your native footage was DVCProHD ?”
Our film takes has a lot of scenes in one room with red / pink hued walls. The DVCPro HD codec is not very happy with that color when I start color correcting, it gets very blocky and some vertical banding starts showing up. By coming in at 8bit uncompressed, the blockiness and banding goes away.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I will be using the 1200A Deck. Sorry, I didn’t get to you sooner, just got home from work. Thanks. CIAO.
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I will be using the 1200A deck. If I digitize using the DVCPRO HD codec can I still go in through the HD-SDI in, if so will the rez be better than firewire in? What drives do you recommend for Uncompressed 720p. The drives that Pro Max has me slated for are Hitachi SATA in a raid going back into the computer via a scussi card. How come that isn’t fast enough or big enough for 7 hrs? What do you recommend? Thank you. CIAO!!!!
Curious Jandro
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[Jandro] “If I digitize using the DVCPRO HD codec can I still go in through the HD-SDI in, if so will the rez be better than firewire in?”
The capture is identical. It’s the DVCPro HD codec either way.
[Jandro] “What drives do you recommend for Uncompressed 720p.”
Medea FCR2X
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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