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Wacky, annoying iMovie HD -> FCP issue
Hey all. So, I work on an animated show for HBO handling pretty much all the back-end tech and post stuff. We’re all Final Cut here –except for the show’s creator. Here’s how the workflow HAS to go for shows he’s the main writer on. A note: yes, I know, iMovie should be out of the question. Believe me, I have tried moving him to FC Express and some other solutions but iMovie HD is the only option he will pursue and he’s the boss. So — please, if you can, avoid telling me not to involve iMovie in the process. Believe me, I know.
Here’s how it goes. The Boss downloads audio files for the session at his home — he lives out of town. He cuts the audio together for a scene in iMovie HD. JUST the audio, no picture. Sticks this iMovie project up on the server. Now what’s supposed to happen is an editor opens the iMovie project in FCP and basically rebuilds this cut using our in-house audio, properly referenced on our SAN. In other words the iMovie projects are little more than a really dumbed-down EDL of sorts for these audio sequences, which run a couple of minutes tops. The editor knows what the timing should be and where everything should land and can dig up the original files and build a new project based on this sequence. Not pretty, but it works.
Most of the time.
We have 7 FCP systems and 5 of them have Konas; two of them are assistant stations and do not. All have the same Mac Pro config, memory, video card etc. Every setting — with the exception of course of Kona-related settings — is the same on each station.
On two stations — one an assistant station and one an editor station with a Kona — these iMovie projects open up just fine. Well, not fine, but fine enough. Everything is more or less intact.
One at least one of the stations a weird thing happens. The last 10-20 seconds — it varies — get truncated. This happens consistently on this one station, inconsistently on another and not at all on at least two — the sequence is cut off 10-20 seconds short in one case but will open totally intact on another machine.
My workaround is to open this same project in FCP on one of the workstations that “works” and simply save it as an FCP project. The editor can now open this FCP project and get to work. However, I would really like to avoid this step and figure out what on earth could be the root cause. I have done a pile of Googling to no avail. I have set up this one problem station exactly as the other ones are set up in terms of FCP prefs. All versions of everything are identical on the machines that work and the machines that don’t This annoying glitch is taking an inordinate amount of my time but the Boss wants it fixed. So if anyone has any ideas, please shout ’em out.
Thanks
Michael -
8 Replies
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Bottom line: it can’t be fixed. iMovie HD is no longer supported by nor available from Apple. It is not supported by current versions of QuickTime. Project opening of this version of iMovie has never been reliable in Final Cut, Express or Pro. That this work flow has worked for you this long is probably because you are using it for audio only. He’s been incredibly lucky it’s worked as long as it has. If he’s doing audio he may as well do it in GarageBand.
He may be the boss, but it’s time he got off his ass and learned some new software. At the very least tell him to get Express. Whatever he can do simply in iMovie he can do in Express just the same without too much of a learning curve, and I bet he can afford a little tutoring.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP6,” “Basic Training for FCS2” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
Hey Tom — thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I know, is all I can say. I’ve tried to force the move to Express, without success. Heh, I have enough headaches making sure everything that’s SUPPOSED to work, work properly, without trying to make things that AREN’T supposed to work do things they aren’t supposed to do, but the Boss is the Boss.
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Do you or the “boss” have the original source clips?
Why not make a self-contained QT movie in the required codec for FCP, and work with that.Cheers
Alexander -
Well, the most important thing is the physical sequence — the clips, which takes are used, where they are cut, and so on. Just getting a QT of the sequence doesn’t give the editor any of that information. Unless I am missing something in what you’re saying.
Bottom line is, this only works at all in the first place ‘cuz of sheer blind luck. Needs to change, to Express at least. The Boss doesn’t want to change. When he started doing this show with one editor a couple of version of FC (and iMovie) ago it worked reliably all the time. He feels it still should. The world has moved on.
My intention in posting this was not really to have that information confirmed — I already knew all that, but it’s nice to hear others say it of course — but to see if there was some weird setting or something I might be able to tweak to make this work a little better, just doing my due diligence here. My sense at the time of posting it was that there isn’t. That sense is confirmed now.
And the Boss is still using iMovie. Sooner or later this so-called “workflow” will break for good, no doubt at a time when there’s a deadline looming or some other horror show. Then he’s gonna have to switch but until then it is my job to put round pegs into square holes.
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from your post:-
“Now what’s supposed to happen is an editor opens the iMovie project in FCP and basically rebuilds this cut using our in-house audio, properly referenced on our SAN. In other words the iMovie projects are little more than a really dumbed-down EDL of sorts for these audio sequences,”
I presume you/other editors HAVE FCP ( else why your above statement), your boss doesn’t have it, so use the media in FCP, hence my question re the origionals.Cheers
Alexander -
>>>
from your post:-
“Now what’s supposed to happen is an editor opens the iMovie project in FCP and basically rebuilds this cut using our in-house audio, properly referenced on our SAN. In other words the iMovie projects are little more than a really dumbed-down EDL of sorts for these audio sequences,”
I presume you/other editors HAVE FCP ( else why your above statement), your boss doesn’t have it, so use the media in FCP, hence my question re the origionals.
<<< I guess I am not sure what you're asking here. Yes, the audio files are kept here. The Boss downloads them to his machine at home, imports them into iMovie and builds an iMovie sequence with them. He saves the iMovie project and gives it (and a reference QT of the audio) to an editor. The editor opens the iMovie project in FCP and (if he's lucky) the sequence appears much as it does in iMovie. (Not always, thus my original post.) All the individual clips are in the timeline, and they will all be from different takes. However, the clips are all referencing the iMovie media in the iMovie project. Naturally we don't want the FCP sequence we'll be using going forward to reference those clips embedded in the iMovie file, nor do we want the iMovie-renamed clip names in our projects (which would cause hell when we have to make split-track outputs and so on), so the editor basically rebuilds a sequence exactly like the iMovie sequence using the local audio media and moves on from there. The Boss does have FC Express but will not use it. FCP is out of the question as you might then imagine. We can't just have the Boss dump out a QT and then use that as a basis for the "real" FCP sequence. The editors would have to listen to every take and try to pick out by ear which take was used for which word or phrase and try to duplicate the cut points precisely. But, maybe I am totally misunderstanding what you are saying? -
[Michael Sheehan] “Naturally we don’t want the FCP sequence we’ll be using going forward to reference those clips embedded in the iMovie file, nor do we want the iMovie-renamed clip names in our projects (which would cause hell when we have to make split-track outputs and so on), so the editor basically rebuilds a sequence exactly like the iMovie sequence using the local audio media and moves on from there.
“??? Your workflow is shaky to say the least. For your purpose reference movies are totally useless.
What is the codec and source of the origional media, audio and video? iMovie video is digitized as DV stream Codec, but that is not what the camera captured. For best quality wrt the source, you need the origional media in it’s origional codec.
Unless you can get this you are hosed quality-wise. Get the boss to send it to you, after he has played with iMovie.
Don’t use a reference movie, get/make a self-contained QT movie from the origional source, it will probably be in the wrong codec, but import and render it out in a FCP sequence set to the output required. The quality may be awful, but use this as a vdeo and audio rough copy. Then import the origional media, add in a track under the roughie and edit, copying the theme of the track above.Cheers
Alexander -
>>??? Your workflow is shaky to say the least. For your purpose reference movies are totally useless.<< Alexander, no offense, but you are completely and massively misunderstanding absolutely everything about what I've posted (partially my fault, see below). (And honestly your tone and choice of words is sometimes unfortunate and a little insulting.) I've been post supe on this series for a long time and believe me I know what I am doing and the ill-suitedness of iMovie to this work. If I could force my own Boss to do what I tell him, there wouldn't be anything ever done on iMovie ever again. But I've gone over that elsewhere in this thread. A Boss is a Boss, and I'm offering no judgments. As far as he is concerned, this is the way he HAS to work. Since I seem to have been unclear, I'll repeat it one more time: There is no video. There is no camera. There is no capture. There is no transcoding (except for a QT output from iMovie). This is a temp audio cut for an animated show. AIFFs get imported into iMovie for temp cutting purposes. The boss cuts these AUDIO FILES together in an AUDIO ONLY SEQUENCE in iMovie. Sends the resulting iMovie project to the editor. The editor opens this iMovie project and, if it opens properly, which it sometimes doesn't (cf my original post), he can see exactly which takes are used, and where they are cut, because the iMovie sequence contains the clip names as well as all the edit points. Essentially this serves as a sort of (extremely) dumbed-down EDL for the editor -- who then CREATES A NEW DUPLICATE OF THIS SEQUENCE IN FCP, USING THE IMOVIE SEQUENCE AS A GUIDE that links NOT TO THE IMOVIE MEDIA but to the ORIGINAL AUDIO FILES. THAT NEW PROJECT IS USED GOING FORWARD. THE IMOVIE PROJECT AND ALL ITS MEDIA ARE DISCARDED AND NEVER SEEN AGAIN. >> For your purpose reference movies are totally useless.<<< I see what you are misunderstanding here, let me clarify. I am not referring to a "reference Quicktime" but a Quicktime the editor can "refer to." Poor choice of words on my part. Because there have been odd results opening iMovie projects in FCP -- which I totally expect, as iMovie is not appropriate for this, especially an old unsupported version -- the Boss also exports a Quicktime of the final audio sequence, so the editor can listen to it and compare it to the iMovie sequence opened in FCP and see if there are discrepancies. So hopefully for the last time, my point in posting here was more doing due diligence so I can tell my boss honestly I have exhausted every avenue (as requested) in finding a solution to make the iMovie HD tool stop acting glitchy and work as perfectly as he thinks it should, notwithstanding the validity of his belief. It never will, as we know. I knew this coming in the door and have long since had the independent confirmation I sought. Some day he will simply have to stop using it, because it won't even work at all. Seriously, I have explained all this to the Boss in every conceivable way and Express is even installed on his machine. He can use it any time. He just won't. Can we let this drop now please? Thanks.
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