virtual VTR

[Joe Huggins]

Because the TC numbers have to be given a FCP File Name to be able to conform to the timeline. FCP has to batch capture from a tape or in this case a drive, in order to re-link to the timeline. Avid can link with TC, FCP has to use a ‘file name’ as TC alone does not link in a timeline. Cpmplicated, no?

Thanks, Film Joe

[Neil Sadwelkar]

We’ve used VVTR a few years ago as a Telecine DDR. To crash record from FCP and then as a ‘VTR’ for our FCP and smoke systems. We never actually got it to be frame accurate. Those were early (FCP4-5) days. And the Blackmagic cards we used then, had buggy genlock issues. We eventually got better results with later versions and a MOTU MTP-AV timecode unit.

But eventually we stopped using this as other workflows prevailed.

You get on the phone with Mark Gilbert at Gallery. He is extremely helpful and chances are you’ll find a solution.

There’s a new Cineform DDR app that’s pricier than VVTR but you may find that works better.

———————————–
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India

[Bouke Vahl]

An avid can act like a virtual VTR if you have the proper cable.

So make a sequence from every reel and you’ll be golden.

But i still don’t get it. If you use Compressor or Media manager to make proxy / offline clips, you can retain filename / reelname / TC.

And, if you already have everything on disk, why not just work from the originals?

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Joe Huggins]

Neil,

Thanks for the suggestions. Mark at Gallery has been helpful, but they admit they only designed it for standard playback for ADR/ audio work. The Pro version to fill in selects holes when conforming is not fully supported anymore. The Cineform DDR is interesting and we will look at that and the MOTU device. Did the MOTU make the VVTR more accurate or just provide clean TC? I’m not sure that purchasing that hardware will help VVTR as much as we’d like probably.

Thanks, Film Joe

[Joe Huggins]

Thanks.

We can not use Avid as we have 444 QT media captured by a Kona3. We are not exporting with Media Manager, we are taking an offline EDL, tranferring selects via telecine direct to drive in 444, so there are TC breaks in these selects. Now they have the right TC, but FCP can not match to the 444 selects as it needs a file name first. So we have to have FCP ‘control’ a tape deck (in this case VVTR and media on a drive) and capture the 444 TC media in order for it to be placed in the timeline in high rez. This is the big ‘flaw’ in FCP for matching back in a DI workflow using selects process. It can not use TC it has to have the original file name to re-link.

I don’t suppose any new tools for this exist in V. 7 do they?

Thanks, Film Joe

[Bouke Vahl]

Joe,

I still don’t get it exactly, and since i’m a TC freak:
How can you have captured material with TC breaks?
AFAIK, no digital format accepts TC breaks.
Definitly QT does not allow for this.
So how does the TC live in the 444 files? Does Kona has a hack for this?

(writing something that does renaming / splitting clips is no problem for me, if i understand the source TC. Will probably be cheaper than any virtual VTR…)

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Neil Sadwelkar]

Joe,

I think I understand exactly what you’re saying. About 4 years ago I created such a setup sitting in a telecine. Our smoke and flame suites were supposed to be able to control VVTR as a VTR and capture from it to an EDL.

Our workflow was…
1. Crash record to VVTR with TC coming in via RS-422 from the telecine.
2. Edit these captured Quicktimes in offline edit suites Avid or FCP. (Avid would need transcode)
3. After edit, and create an EDL.
4. Load EDL in smoke and capture from VVTR now acting like a VTR.
5. If we had selects, we would record entire rolls with new grades.
6. Then load up these ‘re-telecine’ rolls like new tapes.
7. smoke would then capture these just like they were coming out of a real VTR.

This worked up to a point, till we figured other workflows, and finally went back to tape. We had to give out tapes to clients so this VVTR led to double usage of VTRs.

In your case, you are doing selects like real selects with same TC but not same durations and file names. FCP cannot reconnect these, I know.

You need a different workflow. And you need different reconnect behaviour from FCP. Let me think about it.

———————————–
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India

[Joe Huggins]

Glad to hear you are a TC detail person as this is usually on an issue to film people, and writing a ‘rename’ program could be a very valuable software. If all your media is on tape TC is not an issue. But in a film feature mode, after a SD offline, when the selects are telecined in 444 to SR tape there are breaks in the tape for TC. All the Hour 1 Source selects from a neg roll are together, so FCP can (as I understand it), search across those breaks, thinking it is tape 1 hour 1, and find the TC scene and capture that into the system using the file name from the timeline to look for the TC. All if fine.

But we preferr to not use tape, lay the selected scenes to a SAN. It would be great if FCP could then look at that TC media and relink it to the timeline, but it can not since TC is not used, but the original file name is how FCP links media to the timeline.

So, the VVTR Pro software from Gallery, was designed to find all the Hour 1 selects on a drive, and put those shots in TC order into a ‘fake’ timeline that puts blank ‘slugs’ between the selects where the TC is missing. Then FCP using a standard capture mode, sees the drive as a VTR – thinks its just a ‘deck’ and captures the needed TC scenes and places them in the timelne. It’s a 2-step process, but VVTR Pro is not reliable for this purpose.

If you want to discuss this and any code you might write my number is 404-633-1448. This would be very useful in my opinion to most transfer houses working on features or color corrected selects for commercials cut on FCP.

Thanks, Film Joe

[Bouke Vahl]

Joe,
If i understand you well, your problem is easilly fixed.
FCP relinks based on location / filename / reelname AND tc.

So if you alter a clip in duration, but with the same TC ‘somewhere’ in the clip, FCP will relink correct.
(You can test that yourself with a testclip and QT player to trim the clip.)

So, i can make something that works as follows:
You media manage the offline to create fresh clips (aka consolidate)
My app will analyze those files, and rename the high-res ones.
Then it’s up to you to swap offline/online clips and you’re done.

(in therory…)

But the concept is very easy to test for you.
Writing the app. will be quite swift. (I’ve done something similar with my BWF / QT merge application, part of the FCPauxTC reader.)

Off now for the night, but contact me direct if you want to discuss this further.

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s

[Bouke Vahl]

I consider this issue solved with the use of this:
https://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=41

Relinking based on TC and Reel info only.

hth,

Bouke

https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s