Video overlay on second monitor

[Blast1]

Did you totally remove the old cards drivers before installing the new ones?

[Ninetto Makavejev]

Hello Blast,

Thanks for the tip…a good point there. I did use the standard de-installer for Nvidia… I had heard that removing ATI-drivers is more difficult. Which is probably going to be my next problem… After trying every trick in the book, even resetting PremPros Presets, I think I will return to my Nvidia card, which although it is lower quality that the ATI, it worked with full-size video overlay.

Somehow I think there is a serious bug here. Maybe it has to do with DVI vs VGA… ATI vs. ADOBE vs WINDOZE? Who knows. After 10 years of being a loyal Premiere-User and fighting off all sorts of snide comments from AVID and FCP- users I am sorry to say this problem is the straw which broke-the-camel’s (my)-back. I used to love Premiere and its endless flexibility. After three days with the overlay problem, the love-affair is over.

With AVID XPRESS PRO, even though the ATI-card is not certified at all, the video-overlay works perfectly, in the exact same machine that Premiere refuses to talk to, regarding video-overlay.

Off to new horizons…

[Ninetto Makavejev]

UPDATE:

Someone on the Premiere forum WAS able to partly solve the problem:

Well I kind of solved the problem, at least half way, still have some work to do.

If you make a new custom preset in Premiere using Dekstop as the mode instead of DV and then set it for standard def resolutions and whatever aspect ratio you are working in you can then set the display device to a secondary or third monitor and it will work like it does for the HD presets just click on the Playback settings button in Premiere and change the external device to whatever Monitor you want and the Aspect Ratio handling to whatever you need, basically Premiere handles the full screen video, not the cards software. It will also allow you to select aspect ratio changes such as letterboxing for 4:3 displays. Only problem I have found so far is everything that is put into the timeline no matter what has a red un-rendered bar. But it still plays fine, in fact on my new Core2 system with a pair of ATI PICe cards I am getting way more in RT this way than I was on my Matrox RTX.
The added bonus is, as I have my third output patched to my LCD TV via DVI I can use it as a third display when not in Premiere and when I am in Premiere, the SD picture is uprezzed very nicely by the ATI to 720P. So all I need to do is get it to recognise SD DV footage in the timeline as not requiring rendering and I will be perfectly happy.

NOTED: the fact that standard DV-footage has to be “rendered” is still not acceptable, but you DO get full-bvideo overlay in any case. This HAS to be a Premiere Bug, I have seen this problem on too many forums!!! Premiere somehow has a problem recognizing certain monitor/card cofigurations!!!

[Vince Becquiot]

Well, the truth be told, Premiere (SD) was meant to be used with firewire out and not actually be previewed fullscreen on a computer monitor, because there really isn’t a benefit there, as far as checking your video for NTSC issues. If you that setup, you won’t need rendering to view your footage. Don’t even try an ATI card with FCP 😉

Vince

[Ninetto Makavejev]

Dear Vince,
it is reassuring in a strange way to read your “truth-be-told” comment, because I was sure it was me to blame for Premiere’s strange behavior regarding playback output. Now I know I am not crazy.

One other point though, when you say PremPro SD was designed to playout via Firewire: why is it then that the other common problem using this (preferred) firewire-route is the video-playback/audio lag which so many people experience?

I had this one too, until the confusing issue of how/where audio and video sources are outputing/inputing was more-or-less solved. I say more-or-less, since you can ask ten different people how they output the “audio scrubbing” and still stay synched with video-via-firewire, and you will get ten different answers.
And who wants to have an intermediate DV device always running, just so you can get video output?

These are such basic and annoying issues which, I’m afraid, have convinced me that the FCP and AVID crowd are right. Premiere is just too eccentric/ too inconsistent to configure for serious professionals.

regards,
n.m.

[Blast1]

[ninetto] “why is it then that the other common problem using this (preferred) firewire-route is the video-playback/audio lag which so many people experience?”

There is no audio problem if you are playing the audio from the same firewire source, most people listen to the audio on their computer and monitor the video externally, this creats a time difference.

[Baz Leffler]

OK guys… here’s the tip for editing using ‘desktop mode’.

As discussed earlier the benefit is being able to use the ‘second head’ of the video graphics card to view full screen; the downside is the red render bar across ALL media. But on a good machine spacebar will allow RT playback while editing. Also it should be noted that you can still capture DV etc while in desktop mode.

So… to the trick. After completing your edit open a new DV project and import the desktop project you just completed. Then open its timeline and no red render bar (if the media is unaltered). All thats left to do is export to tape; minus the second full screen monitor.

It also should be noted that desktop mode will allow you to ‘make movie’ (gee I hate that term!) into any format you like.

My thoughts…? Well imo its an Adobe oversite, not a bug… because second monitor viewing works so well in HDV… but then you cannot see it thru the deck.

Baz
(ps. as a tip some graphics cards require to run in ‘clone’ mode and some in ‘extend desktop’ mode for this functionality to work)

[Ninetto Makavejev]

Sooooooooo, one last thought on this sad issue of video-overlay problems with Premiere:

Why should the firewire-TV route be any more reliable/stable for Premiere than using the TV-ouput of a ceritfied graphic card (PNY-fx540)? In fact, I would think that the graphic card would offer much more reliable calibration of the output signal than any firewire device.

So there is still an unanswered puzzle with the “truth” that Premiere prefers firewire output.
Besides that other than using the clunky “HDV desktop method” I still cannot get fullscreen video output from Premiere, even after using every possible combination of property settings (clone/dual…etc.).

But, what-the-hey, like I said, I have thus hoisted the white flag, ad

[Vince Becquiot]

Well, I think you said that you are previewing on a computer CRT monitor. The ATI card really isn’t the issue here, but what you are seeing the footage on.

The reason many SD editors use firewire out is to be able to see the footage on an actual broadcast monitor (or TV screen), in order to catch issues that would arise from your footage being too saturated (distortion), or too sharp (jumpiness). The screen on an NTSC monitor also displays colors differently than a computer CRT or LCD monitor. All these things, you won’t see unless you use a firewire output, or a (usually expensive) SDI / COMP OUT card.

Some people also use their ATI composite video out to preview, which doesn’t really give you a true rendition of your footage either.

Now this is all relative to whether it will be viewed on a computer or a TV screen, or even a plasma screen. But for now, the majority of consumers still use good ‘ol televisions 😉

BTW, if you have a decently fast computer, you shouldn’t experience any issues with firewire out.

Vince

[Blast1]

[ninetto] “Why should the firewire-TV route be any more reliable/stable for Premiere than using the TV-ouput of a ceritfied graphic card (PNY-fx540)? In fact, I would think that the graphic card would offer much more reliable calibration of the output signal than any firewire device.”

When the output of the FX540 is set to use video out to the BOB for external monitor use its fine when the external monitor is calibrated properly, its more convenient to use the firewire out and keep a 2 computer monitor setup + a external video monitor.

[ninetto] “I still cannot get fullscreen video output from Premiere, even after using every possible combination of property settings (clone/dual…etc.).
But, what-the-hey, like I said, I have thus hoisted the white flag, ad