Vegas render quality

[Gary Kleiner]

You should not be having any quality problems. What format are you startig with? What settings are you rendering to?

As far as multiple generation renders, DV should look just fine, but if you are rendering to a more compressed format such as Mpeg, then you are going to see some degredation.

Gary Kleiner

Learn Vegas and DVD Architect

http://www.VegasTrainingAndTools.com

[Mike Kujbida]

[James Williams] Part2
Does the motion blur setting on the track header effect multiple renderings.

By default it’s disabled so, unless you enable it, it won’t affect anything.

[James Williams]

Thanks for the quick responses
I capture to native DV. I render to standard AVI dv. I always render to my projects to dv before i mpeg them. I have noticed that when i put a .veg project into another project it seems to lose something as well.
As far as the motion button at the end or the track, when you put your cursor on it it says “bypass motion blur” so i was under the impression it was always on and i should push this button to in effect bypass the blur setting. By the way i have never pushed the button and rendered i was just grabbing at straws i guess thinking this may be a cause.
What setting do you guys use in preferences an setup?
J. Williams

[Mike Kujbida]

I always render to my projects to dv before i mpeg them.

I work the opposite and always render to MPEG. This way, I have a lot more control over things like bitrate, 2-pass, CBR vs. VBR, etc. in what I’m feeding to DVDA.
If I need an AVI as a backup, I can always do it later but, since I save all other related files as well as the VidCap files (I always do batch renders,just for this reason) and file the tapes in a safe place, I can always rebuild th eproject if I have to.
The color sample issue is another reason for doing it my way.
By it’s very nature, DV footage is 4:1:1 colour.
On the flip side, still images, graphics and titles are 4:4:4 colour.
When you render your timeline to DV-AVI, all your 4:4:4 material gets transcoded to 4:1: colour space. Then it gets furhter compressed to the 4:2:0 colour space of MPEG.
By rendering directly to MPEG, you avoid a conversion step, resulting in slightly better quality of the images/graphics/titles in your final product.

… i was under the impression it was always on and i should push this button to in effect bypass the blur setting.

Nope. It’s off until you enable it.

What setting do you guys use in preferences an setup?

There are probably over 100 choices. Can you be a bit more specific?

The only changes I generally make are the paths to the various render and temp directories/folders as I don’t like everything going to C:\My Documents.

For render purposes, it’s either some form of MPEG-2/AC-3 or NTSC DV-AVI.
Depending on the project length, I’ll use a bitrate claculator to create a custiom MPEG-2 preset so that I can get the best quality out of my video.

[Gary Kleiner]

You don’t need to render to DV before rendering to Mpg, though even if you do, you should not really be able to see any real-world difference.

If you start with a DV clip and make no changes then render to DV, do you see a difference? They should be totally identical.

Gary Kleiner

Learn Vegas and DVD Architect

http://www.VegasTrainingAndTools.com

[Douglas Spotted eagle]

As far as multiple generation renders, DV should look just fine,

*all* compressed formats degrade over generational renders. Regardless of how compressed or lesser compressed they may be.

Rendering to DV prior to rendering to MPEG is a bad idea if quality and color depth are important to you. Not only are you gaining a generation, but you are also halving your color.
DV is 4:1:1. MPEG is 4:2:0
If you have a timeline with graphics, titles, etc, plus compositing, those are all processed internally at 4:4:4. When your render to MPEG from the timeline, those 4:4:4 segments become 4:2:0 and you lose very little in the visual perception. When you render to 4:1:1 (DV) as an intermediary, you’ve reduced the information by 75%. Then you halve part of that information again when you render to 4:2:0 (MPEG) from the DV/avi file, thus effectively giving you a 4:1:0 MPEG, meaning you’ve lost color depth and some softening is inevitable.
As Mike K suggests, render to MPEG straight from the Vegas timeline. Not only do you have significantly more control, but you also generate a better MPEG at the end of the process. And, it’s faster.
Project settings for DV-acquired media should be the NTSC DV (assuming you’re in the USA/Canada) template, or NTSC DV Widescreen if you’re using a widescreen cam. If you’re shooting HDV, then you should be using the HDV 60i template, or the HDV 23.976 template if you used a Canon or Sony 24p camcorder set to 24p mode.
HTH

Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Aerial Camera

[James Williams]

Thanks guys
This information is good and very helpful. To explain a bit i render to DV to save a copy for editing (as a DV is easier to edit later for the inevitable changes) the i render an mpeg from the timeline for dvd. I do this to avoid keeping my harddirves loaded donw with the veggie files. I am guilty of rendering small segment avi’s and builing them over time to a larger project. As you all explained thats probably where i’m getting degradation.
I know this is another topic sorta, but is it my imagination that the vegas text is not as crisp as some other editors? Is there a special way you guys handle text.
J. Williams

[Mike Kujbida]

[James Williams] “I know this is another topic sorta, but is it my imagination that the vegas text is not as crisp as some other editors? Is there a special way you guys handle text.”

First of all, read and follow the article Great Titles with the DV Codec.Great Titles with the DV Codec.
Second, when you’re creating text, double the size of it in the Freame Size window boxes. That is, change it from 720 x 480 to 1440 x 960.
I’ve found that this makes things a bit crisper, especially around the edges.
Thanks to DSE for the tip 🙂

[James Williams]

Outstanding tip Mike, thank you all very much. This forum is the real deal.
J. Williams

[Videobug]

Shoot with Sony HVR-v1U hd mode capture to sony 7.0e render to mpeg2t DVD Architect SD get artifacts mostly vertical poles very curvy what am I doing wrong TV picture Windows player all same.