vegas crash editing h264 files

[Roger Bansemer]

I’ve posted earlier about similar problems but have gotten no real solutions. The H.264 files reek havoc with Vegas. I get crashes every few minutes and am constantly hitting the save button. It has been suggested to convert the files to something else like avi but that’s just not practical. This doesn’t help but you aren’t alone.
Sony never ever answers emails either.

[John Rofrano]

> It has been suggested to convert the files to something else like avi but that’s just not practical.

It’s not a matter of practicality… it’s a matter of understanding that acquisition formats are not always good editing formats and that using digital intermediaries fixes this problem. In fact, this is exactly what Apple FCP does without even giving you the option. It almost never edits native formats and always converts to the Apple Intermediary Codec (AIC) or ProRes422 so that editing can go smoother.

The people who are editing Canon 7D footage without problems are the ones who understand this and have purchase Cineform NeoScene which is specifically designed for this purpose. You can try and struggle to edit the native files produced by the camera or you can convert them into a format that is easier for editing. Those are pretty much your only options.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Roger Bansemer]

Thanks for the response John. What I don’t understand is that I’m using a Sony camera and Sony editing software. If anything should be compatible that should be.

[Kevin Mccarthy]

I have just started editing H.264 after buying a Kodak ZI8 and have found that preview issues can be resolved by changing the preview settings. If it stops in draft, I change it to draft/half and preview comes back. It may stop again and I change it back to draft or auto and bingo, preview returns. The next time I change it back to draft or draft/half, preview returns etc.etc.

It seems to me we may need an update to solve these issues. How ’bout it Sony?

[John Rofrano]

> What I don’t understand is that I’m using a Sony camera and Sony editing software. If anything should be compatible that should be.

It’s not about compatibility. It doesn’t matter that you are using a Sony camera although that helps a bit. (my Sony CX12 footage edits pretty easily in Vegas Pro 9 but I only use it for family/vacation video. My professional work is all done with my Sony Z1U and A1U which is HDV and easy to edit. I specifically stayed with HDV cameras to avoid all this pain that others are having) 😉

The very nature of H.264 is that it is highly compressed and uses interframe compression with a GOP of 15 frames. That means that when you park the timeline cursor on a frame, you have a 1 in 15 chance of hitting a full frame. The other 14 out of 15 are delta and predictive frames containing only partial information about the image. So not only does Vegas have to uncompress the current frame (which is highly compressed), it has to uncompress several frames before it to re-assemble the image from the deltas. This takes a lot of processing power.

By contrast, if you use a codec like CineForm which uses intraframe compression, then the compression is lighter and every frame is a complete image. There is no need to look at any other frames to display the current one. This is why CineForm and other intraframe codecs are so much easier to edit with.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Roger Bansemer]

I always use the Preview Auto mode.

If I have H.264 clips on several timelines, then the video becomes jerky. If I mute all but one video track the video will be smooth because it’s not having to deal with all the tracks.

Why can’t Vegas automatically see that the tracks below the ones on top do not need to be processed or whatever it’s called. This would solve a lot of memory processing problems.

[Jerry Norman]

John, does Sony MXF use intraframe compression? How do you feel about using it for editing?

Jerry

[Roger Bansemer]

The program that came with my small Sony XR-520 camera views H.256 files perfectly. I just don’t know why Vegas can’t implement whatever that program has to preview the same exact files when dropped on the Vegas timeline.
My camera previews them perfectly as well. What’s wrong with Vegas that I can’t do the same thing???

[Joe Mantaratz]

Hi Roger,
I’ve addressed this issue a few times as I have dealt with this same issue. Most of my products are Sony and as such thought that this would be the best way to avoid any problems. It is just not the case. The software developers and the hardware folks do not work hand in hand. Each has their own market to reach. Apple of course likes to keep everything in house and as John says they convert to their format for east editing.

[Roger Bansemer]

Hello Mr. Mantaratz,
I do look up to you as a source of information and you have given me good advice in the past.

Well, if I have to make intermediate files, I guess I’ll do so. What do you suggest as a program to accomplish this and in what format should I convert them? Also do these intermediate programs convert each clip individually? I would hate to end up with one huge clip.

I’m using Windows7 64bit. Should I install some other Codec for Vegas to use. Could that be an issue?

I’m pulling my hair out with Vegas crashing every few minutes as I try and edit.