Using Cinema Tools-Useful or Nightmare?

[Shane Ross]

I only used Cinema Tools to convert the ALE into a FCP Batch list. Beyond that…OH…and I used it to convert a 29.97 EDL to a 23.98 EDL. But other than that, I feel that it really is only intended for works that will require a negative cut.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Sean Oneil]

[35mmGuy] “I make an edit on a 3:2 pulldown frame in my offline. This can cause a flash frame that will need to be fixed by stopping the assembly.

Then there is Cinema Tools, which I have never used. Can any one give me their work flow for using Cinema Tools to offline a 24fps film show?

How did you set up the FCP project?

Did you strip off the 3-2 pull down with Cinema Tools on the source footage after you loaded it all in? You did you remove it from the final time line edit only?”

Two things:

1. If you do edit in 29.97, FCP lets you tag your clips with “Film Safe” thus preventing you from making edits in places which will later cause flash frames.

2. You can use CT to perform an inverse telecine before editing. But rather than doing that, you can actually capture the footage directly as 23.98 using a Kona or Blackmagic card. You just need to identify the A frame. That way when you do the batch re-capture from HDCam SR, it should come in flawlessly since the framerate isn’t changing.

Sean

[Sean Oneil]

BTW, I just remembered CT won’t let you do a reverse telecine with DV footage. For some stupid reason, it assumes that DV footage must be 3:2:2:3 advanced pulldown, not regular 3:2 pulldown. So you’d have to convert it to uncompressed or JPEG first.

Go with the Kona/Decklink solution if you can. Definitely the best workflow.

Sean

[Richard Boddington]

Two things:

1. If you do edit in 29.97, FCP lets you tag your clips with “Film Safe” thus preventing you from making edits in places which will later cause flash frames.

Sean,

Tell me more about this option, how do you do it? What are the settings?

2. You can use CT to perform an inverse telecine before editing. But rather than doing that, you can actually capture the footage directly as 23.98 using a Kona or Blackmagic card. You just need to identify the A frame. That way when you do the batch re-capture from HDCam SR, it should come in flawlessly since the framerate isn’t changing.

Another excellent idea, thanks. I’ll look around for the card, the Blackmagic card may come in handy for future projects as well.

Thanks
Richard

Sean

[Richard Boddington]

Hi,

Does any one else know about Film Safe? I have looked all over the FCP menus, and all over the help, and I can’t find a thing on this (see below).

I would love to know where it is and how to set it up.

Thanks in advance.
Richard

[Sean ONeil] “35mmGuy] “I make an edit on a 3:2 pulldown frame in my offline. This can cause a flash frame that will need to be fixed by stopping the assembly.

Then there is Cinema Tools, which I have never used. Can any one give me their work flow for using Cinema Tools to offline a 24fps film show?

How did you set up the FCP project?

Did you strip off the 3-2 pull down with Cinema Tools on the source footage after you loaded it all in? You did you remove it from the final time line edit only?”

Two things:

1. If you do edit in 29.97, FCP lets you tag your clips with “Film Safe” thus preventing you from making edits in places which will later cause flash frames.

2. You can use CT to perform an inverse telecine before editing. But rather than doing that, you can actually capture the footage directly as 23.98 using a Kona or Blackmagic card. You just need to identify the A frame. That way when you do the batch re-capture from HDCam SR, it should come in flawlessly since the framerate isn’t changing.”

[Tunaking]

Sean,

>>BTW, I just remembered CT won’t let you do a reverse telecine with DV footage.

Not true. People use every day. It was designed to do this. It’s been doing this since it was Film Logic.

For some stupid reason, it assumes that DV footage must be 3:2:2:3 advanced pulldown, not regular 3:2 pulldown. So you’d have to convert it to uncompressed or JPEG first.

>>Not true at all.

Go with the Kona/Decklink solution if you can. Definitely the best workflow.

>>You have to watch out with the Kona/Decklink solution. When the clips are reversed they remember their 29.97 timecode (they are not converted to 23.98). If you look at the timecode window in FCP for the clips, they jump timecode numbers. If you plan to online in HD this can cause problems, because you can make edits in your offline that happen above frame 23 (like frame 29). Use caution.

Sean

[Sean Oneil]

[TK] “Not true. People use every day. It was designed to do this. It’s been doing this since it was Film Logic.”

Actually CT 2.2 it doesn’t work. The option to pick the A frame is greyed out. But yes I was wrong in the sense that they seemed to have fixed it with CT 3. I apologize.

[TK] ” If you look at the timecode window in FCP for the clips, they jump timecode numbers. If you plan to online in HD this can cause problems, because you can make edits in your offline that happen above frame 23 (like frame 29)”

You can use “Modify->Timecode” and change it to 23.98 TC.

[Sean Oneil]

Also, if you capture and edit at 23.98 from a Kona or BM, you can still use the EDL conversion route. It still doesn’t prevent you from doing that because the 29.97 TC is still intact so you can make a 29.97 EDL. Additionally, you won’t be making any bad edits that will cause a flash frame because the editing is in a 23.98 timebase.

Another possible solution is to have the HDCam deck output as 1080i60 and use the same pulldown removal method during the online as you do in the offline.