URGENT: Quality Horrible when scaling and Rendering (?interlace issue?)

[Rafael Amador]

Here no problems. Even positioning the resized clips in not integer positions. Even setting the Y in an odd line. Clean image and Drop Shadow on top of a captured clip and on top of bars. I tried with DV (scaled to 47.9) and HD (scaled to 19) footage in a DV sequence.

Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17″
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.

[Kevin Monahan]

Hi Rafael,
Is this from your G5 or your MBP? Can you test both machines?

Kevin Monahan

fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Grahpics and Effects in Final Cut Pro

[Les Galusha]

I have been swamped today so have not been able to run any more tests — Hope to try a few more tonight with some progressive footage and then go the opposite direction with DV and a DV sequence.

Yes, Rafael I’d be interested in your test results too.
On another website’s Forum I’ve had some feedback with a user replicating the tearing of interlaced footage and shadows as well. I need to verify what is footage was shot on.

[Rafael Amador]

Sorry i couldn’t come back earlier.
The test I made yesterday was with the MBP. I have installed Leopard 5.0.2, QT 4.1 and FC6.0.2
and every single update (Pro-kit, Leopard Graphic Update..)
I’ve just made some tests in the G5. I’m downscaling some DV footage and placing it in a DV sequence , on top of some more DV footage and some color bars. The drop shadow looks clear.
I have tried with two different systems in the G5:
– Mac OS X 10.4.11, QT 7.3.0, FCS 6.0.2
– Mac OS X 10.5.2, QT 7.4.1, FCS 6.0.2
I can not look now in the CRT monitor (busy now) , but in the Apple Cinema 20′ at 100% looks really clean. Even positioning the picture with the “wire-frame’ on render shows no problems.

Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17″
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.

[Kevin Monahan]

Oh, you’re running Leopard? I’m looking at a 2 gHz iMac Intel Core2 Duo with 1 GB RAM with FCP 6.0.2 and QT 7.4.1. OS X 10.4.11

Les, what are your system specs? Need to know the above.

Kevin Monahan

fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Grahpics and Effects in Final Cut Pro

[Les Galusha]

Specs on this system is:

FCP 6.0.2
OS X 10.5.2 Leopard
QT Version 7.4.1
2 X 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
8 GB 800 MHz DDR2 DB-DIMM
Kona 3 HD with AJA breakout box
Apple 30″ Cinema Display and out to 55″ Hitachi Plasma

I can check the other system later, but had the same problems. They are all running the same versions of OS, FCP, and QT as the system above.

[Les Galusha]

OK, I did a test using DV Footage. I thought maybe the reason Rafael was getting clean results was due to importing and working with DV in FCP. Our tests so far have been with Beta/film captured at 525 Uncompressed 8-Bit rather than DV. We thought that since ‘back in the day’ FCP used to be native DV, maybe it had something to do with that, a longshot but….

I captured at 720X480 via KONA3 card. I could not do a test capturing via firewire at this point. I dropped the shot in a sequence the same as the clip settings 720X480 Lower Field.
I compared the 26% scaling and dropshadows side-by-side to a WHITE SOLID created within FCP over COLOR BARS.
Again, The results were the same as I had before. The FCP shadows Generated under teh SOLID look great, but the shadows generated under the Footage looks bad. Even blurring the shadows at high levels was no good.

Unlike a few users who are only experiencing poor shadow quality, we are still having tearing in the interlaced and scaled footage. I have verified this scaling/interlacing of footage with 3 other people now.

Outputting to our Apple Cinema Display, Toshiba Plasma TV, JVC NTSC TM813SU broadcast monitor, and sending to a composite television is displaying both problems.

Anyone else have any “luck” replicating this?

[Les Galusha]

Concerning the degrading of footage when Scaling/Dropshadow/Interlacing in FCP…
…Our company’s engineer got a response from Apple.

The Apple rep said they ARE aware of the footage quality degrading when scaling interlaced footage in a Sequence with field dominance.
Although Apple is not calling it a “problem” because there IS a workaround…They call the workaround “Motion”.

In my opinion, that’s not a good answer…but there IS some good to it, I guess…

The technician that spoke with us said that Apple FCP does NOT plan to fix this issue, but suggests exporting the footage into Motion when working with footage in this way.
Similarly, AVID used to suggest exporting to After Effects when doing processes like this; however, AVID “Fixed/Updated” this quality issue at least 4 years ago.
The FCP developers plan to focus these kinds of developments in Motion, not in FCP. This makes rumors of a “Graphics/Editing package” for the future more valid. Similar to the AVID-DS I assume BUT I expect FCP’s to be much better.
Unfortunately for FCP users, this does not help this issue for the time-being.

The Apple Rep did not provide any other suggestion other than using Motion. However, It seems there is a solid workaround, so it is not a total disappointment.

If interested then read below:

Start with setting your edit-sequence with a field dominance to NONE.
Make sure all your captured footage has field dominance set to NONE. This should be true even for captured interlaced footage.
These settings should take place BEFORE adding any clips to your timeline or it will not work — If you change the field order in the Sequence setting AFTER clips are already dropped in then it will appear blurry…(at least in version 6.)

The quality difference when scaling and adding dropshadows is noticeably different, and “so far” has not caused problems with broadcast dubs sent out on D5 and Beta SP. Typically, you will see shuttering in noninterlaced fast movement. I assume if it causes a “Field” issue with NTSC playback then the Sequence could be sent to Compressor or Motion to render a file with a set field-order.

Again, if you are working with progressive footage in a progressive Sequence then this is not an issue, at least in the 720p test we have done.
And Typically taking clips to Motion or After Effects may be the method to get the best results. However, when a “simple task” as scaling and adding a shadow can not afford the time to send to a 3rd party app, then this appears to be a workaround. If you experience problems with this, please post…

Once again, this information came from a single Apple tech via our engineer, so there may be more reliable sources or methods. But this is the best info we’ve received after 3 weeks of painfully trying to find a solution.
Sorry this post rambles but here ya go.

[Zoe Chan]

Hi, I believe that I am having the same problems. I have final cut express. I have created a composite that includes 6 images that are reduced to 29%, the composition has a lot of edits and would be difficult for me to recreate in AE (which I don’t have anyway).

I’m not able to find a setting for ‘field dominance’ – where would this be? It does not come up when I search the user manual.

Thanks.

[Tom Wolsky]

Go to item properties for the sequence.

There is a separate forum for FCE.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP6,” “Basic Training for FCS2” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop”