-
Uprezing from 1080 to 4K in post, then back down for 35mm delivery.
Hows it going. I may perhaps try this technique, just wanted to hear a few second opinions before I do so perhaps for additional insight.
I’m shooting my feature at 1080pa, doing the pulldown in FCP to get it 23.976, and doing the post myself.
I want to prepare the final master so that in the case that it gets picked up for theatrical, it will be ready to go and look good, on the big screen.
So, this is what I had in mind.
After seeing a few features shot at 720p, and blown up to 35mm, I notice they loose resolution big time after seeing them on the big screen compared to their HD monitors in the studio.
They output to D5 with resolutions of 1280 x 720. Losing resolution is not good, it is highly noticeable especially in the blacks and shadows in the theatres.
So, I knew this whole time I would output as 1920×1080, but, I began to think.
And Perhaps in post I will online in 4K, ensuring that if it did get blown up to 35mm, (2K), then no blacks or shadows would look crappy. Then output my online 4K project back to 1920×1080, making its colors superb.
What do you all this of this strategy I thought up as far as quality if blown up to 35mm for theatrical release, will the quality look great? Should I export at 2K or 4K to the D5 master instead of at 1080? And as far as being able to maintain quality for NTSC DVD release.
Note: This film is a drama, with many shadows and darkness, also scenes with many visual fx, and explosions, etc.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez
http://www.newelementproductions.com
Film-Maker/ Blu-ray Author/ Compositor -
10 Replies
-
[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “And Perhaps in post I will online in 4K, ensuring that if it did get blown up to 35mm, (2K), then no blacks or shadows would look crappy. Then output my online 4K project back to 1920×1080, making its colors superb.”
FIrst off there are less than 1/2 dozen 4K editing platforms and all are expensive, this is not a do it yourself kinda project. Especially if when you consider that a majority of films do DI at 2048x 1152 or for (DCI Spec) Digital delivery at 2048×1080.
films look that good because of the care in acquisition and proper handling of the content from the shoot to the finish.
Fully uncompressed capture and post in 10bit is the first start- then you can have the master converted to film by pro’s ( technicolor, laser pacific, duart) and save yourself nearly $1,000,000.00 on the 4K post process.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Agree with Gary- this would be a really pointless exercise and expensive. You have a 1080p signal which is perfectly suitable for 35mm upres. Blowing it up yourself to 4K though is not going to add any resolution. The HVX is a marvelous camera and capable of generating a fine 35mm print. Is it going to look as sharp as 35mm or 2K or 4K- of course not. But half of the reason why is that you’re using 1/3″ chips and fixed lens optics. Enlarging what you’ve got to work with up to 2K or 4K will not add much except debt…
Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
Makes sense, though my purpose of this is to be able to view the project and edit it already blown up (hense 4K, or even 2K), so I get no surprises such as ridiculous grain, distortion, or even pixelation in the shadows and dark areas, as I would be able to fix it in post before is blown up to 35mm.
I know it can be very expensive, etc, but perhaps we are thinking differently when I say onlining in 4K.
My idea of this would be to scale the entire online version up to 4K or 2K resolution in my compositing program. (Space is not an issue, terabytes are cheap these days).
So this is my idea to simulate the 35mm blowup in my own studio, allowing me to see the ridiculous grain, distortion, or even pixelation in the shadows and dark area if they are there. If so, go back and tweak the original 1920×1080 online version and preview in 4K or 2K again until all looks good.
Then I can be comfortable sending it to a real facility for the 35mm blow up print. (Well, I definitley wont be doing this, the distributors will, as we all know its very costly.)
Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez
http://www.newelementproductions.com
Film-Maker/ Blu-ray Author/ Compositor -
They can do this much better on a hardware level at the time of a filmout. All you’ll be doing is adding a bunch of uprez noise, storage requirements and extra processing time. But to each his own…
Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
I know Ill be adding a bunch of uprez noise, noise that would be there when it goes to 35mm correct? Correct me if I’m wrong though.
So I add the noise, basically simulating a 35mm blowup, then correct correct accordingly on the low res (original version), then my 1080 online version will look somewhat odd and over saturated, blacks too black, etc, but thats fine, because I then know thats only the 35mm blowup version, ensuring it to look its best.
Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez
http://www.newelementproductions.com
Film-Maker/ Blu-ray Author/ Compositor -
Been trying to correct you but you don’t want to be wrong. 🙂 So go for it. Enjoy…
-Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
[Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez] “My idea of this would be to scale the entire online version up to 4K or 2K resolution in my compositing program. (Space is not an issue, terabytes are cheap these days). “
Storage may be cheap- but how are you going to monitor the content?
There is NO 4K workflow for any NLE that I know of, you maybe able to handle the file in AE or Shake- but without real monitoring you have no idea what is happening.
FYI- drives that can handle 4K need to be able to sustain a read and write over 500 gigabytes per second. (700 – 900MBps can be expected depending on the workflow) – and those types of storage are most certainly not cheap- considering there are not many companies that build storage at that level.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Noah its not that I don’t want to be wrong, its that I want to online my film for the maximum quality when handing it off to the 35mm plant to transfer it. My goal is not just to have a nice looking film on my desktop, but also for DVD and a 35mm print, if I have to online at different reoslutions for each format I will do that, just trying to really narrow down what would be best.
So we made progress, 4K is ridiculous, lets just forget about that workflow, Im not doing Spiderman here and even if I was I would still do it in 2K.
Now, when I hand the film off for the uprezing, should I deliver in HDCAMSR with a 1920×1080 file, or on a harddrive with a filesize of 2048×1152 or 2048×1080?
I have not even shot my film yet, as I want to make sure I know how Iam going to online it before I even start. Thanks again for all your comments and responses.
Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez
http://www.newelementproductions.com
Film-Maker/ Blu-ray Author/ Compositor -
I suggest you talk to your post house about that. Uprezzing without knowing how it’s going to be output is a waste of your time. And with that I sign off of this thread for good. 🙂
Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the HD Survival Guide!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
Good piece of advice, I will do that. Thanks everyone.
Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez
http://www.newelementproductions.com
Film-Maker/ Blu-ray Author/ Compositor
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up