Up-Res HVD using Decklink HD Pro. Possible?

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Paul,

I looked on Canon’s site and found the XL H1 camera and it looks very nice. It says that it has uncompressed HD-SDI (SMPTE 292M) output and this standard is supported by all DeckLink HD series cards. This means that you could capture video from this camera to an uncompressed 8 or 10-bit HD1080 timeline using any DeckLink HD series card including the $595 DeckLink HD card.

[Paul from JKT] “I know it will not be a true original 422, but can the footage be up-res to a 10 bit 1080i uncompressed?”

Yes, you could capture the output of the camera to a Blackmagic 10-bit timeline using any DeckLink HD series card. However one of my colleagues has read somewhere on the web that the output of the camera is 8-bit via HD-SDI. I do not know whether this is true and you would probably need to check with Canon. Regardless, I’m sure the quality would be excellent and maybe it would just make sense to capture to an 8-bit timeline to save some disk space.

[Paul from JKT] “and what would the color space actually be at that point, would it stay 420, or would it be a degraded 422?”

When the camera outputs video via HD-SDI, it must perform 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 color space conversion inside the camera before outputting the video. The DeckLink card will then capture video in the 4:2:2 color space. Of course this doesn’t mean that the quality of the image has magically improved but merely that the color space has been appropriately converted.

Your DeckLink HD Pro should be perfect for capturing uncompressed HD-SDI video from the camera. Capturing to an uncompressed timeline is great if you want to edit the video without generational loss and without the time-consuming conform process which can occur when performing an Edit to Tape with a HD deck via HD-SDI output.

I’m not sure how the Canon cameras are made but it is possible that if you capture the HD-SDI output while shooting live video, you may capture perfect, uncompressed video rather than video which has already been compressed in to the HDV format on tape. That is something you would probably need to check with Canon but it would be great for shooting in fixed locations such as in a studio or at a sports ground.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Paul,

I looked on Canon’s site and found the XL H1 camera and it looks very nice. It says that it has uncompressed HD-SDI (SMPTE 292M) output and this standard is supported by all DeckLink HD series cards. This means that you could capture video from this camera to an uncompressed 8 or 10-bit HD1080 timeline using any DeckLink HD series card including the $595 DeckLink HD card.

[Paul from JKT] “I know it will not be a true original 422, but can the footage be up-res to a 10 bit 1080i uncompressed?”

Yes, you could capture the output of the camera to a Blackmagic 10-bit timeline using any DeckLink HD series card. However one of my colleagues has read somewhere on the web that the output of the camera is 8-bit via HD-SDI. I do not know whether this is true and you would probably need to check with Canon. Regardless, I’m sure the quality would be excellent and maybe it would just make sense to capture to an 8-bit timeline to save some disk space.

[Paul from JKT] “and what would the color space actually be at that point, would it stay 420, or would it be a degraded 422?”

When the camera outputs video via HD-SDI, it must perform 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 color space conversion inside the camera before outputting the video. The DeckLink card will then capture video in the 4:2:2 color space. Of course this doesn’t mean that the quality of the image has magically improved but merely that the color space has been appropriately converted.

Your DeckLink HD Pro should be perfect for capturing uncompressed HD-SDI video from the camera. Capturing to an uncompressed timeline is great if you want to edit the video without generational loss and without the time-consuming conform process which can occur when performing an Edit to Tape with a HD deck via HD-SDI output.

I’m not sure how the Canon cameras are made but it is possible that if you capture the HD-SDI output while shooting live video, you may capture perfect, uncompressed video rather than video which has already been compressed in to the HDV format on tape. That is something you would probably need to check with Canon but it would be great for shooting in fixed locations such as in a studio or at a sports ground.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Luke Maslen]

Sorry about the double-post. I received an error on both occasions and repeated by attempt to post!

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Paul From jkt]

Luke, again… Thanks for the great info. Seems like this workflow might let this HVD codec mix well enough with our true HD 10bit footage.

Question below is to see options of other HVD cameras in this type of workflow.

[Luke Maslen] “it must perform 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 color space conversion inside the camera before outputting the video. “

Will the Multibridge firewire input be able to up-res the HDV codec to a HDTV 1080 i/p 8-10bit 4:2:2, and will the conversion in your opinion be as good as possibly the in-camera conversion of the Canon H1?

I know this Camera is not available for comparison, but I am hopping that this is a technical question that only has 0s & 1s to contend with rather than a better mouse trap issue.

Best Regards,

-paul

[Robin]

Hi Paul

I think I was involved in the original discussion in HDV, it’s good to see others figuring out how to get the most out of HDV.

Firstly the Multibridge doesn’t have a firewire input, so you’ll need to check on the output from the Canon camera. It might have a component out like the Z1 so you could do it that way.
Secondly be wary about pre-release hype around cameras. For months people have been saying that the Z1 will be eclipsed by Canon Panasonic, JVC, and my local camera shop. Just don’t get too carried away until it actually comes out. Years ago I opted for a PD150 over a XL1 (which was all the rage) and I’ve never regretted that move. I am very excited about what the Canon seems to offer, but I’m not holding my breath until I see it.

Hi Luke!

Just noticed your comment:

“I’m not sure how the Canon cameras are made but it is possible that if you capture the HD-SDI output while shooting live video, you may capture perfect, uncompressed video rather than video which has already been compressed in to the HDV format on tape.”

it’s a bit off-topic, but can this be done with a Z1 out of the component out?

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Paul,

[Paul from JKT] “Seems like this workflow might let this HVD codec mix well enough with our true HD 10bit footage.”

Yes, if you already have true HD 10bit footage, you will be able to capture from the HD-SDI output of the HDV camera in 10-bit mode so you won’t have to bother with rendering when using your HDV video with existing 10-bit material. This is a really nice workflow for low cost HD with a digital workflow all the way. It will be great when the camera is released.

[Paul from JKT] “Will the Multibridge firewire input be able to up-res the HDV codec to a HDTV 1080 i/p 8-10bit 4:2:2, and will the conversion in your opinion be as good as possibly the in-camera conversion of the Canon H1?”

The Multibridge does not use Firewire. You can just use the Firewire port in a Mac or PC for that. Hence the conversion will be performed in the camera and you will only know how good that will be when it is released.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Robin,

[Robin] “it’s a bit off-topic, but can this be done with a Z1 out of the component out?”

I don’t know the innards of every camera but I am given to understand that you can indeed obtain uncompressed HD component analog output from the Sony HDV cameras, and bypass HDV compression, if you capture from the component outputs during a live recording. There is a support note named How to achieve maximum quality with HDV cameras which details this and, in light of the announcement by Canon, I had better update it soon 🙂

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Sean Oneil]

Regarding the new Canon, I’m fairly certain the camera doesn NOT convert the signal to 4:2:0/HDV and then to 4:2:2 if you’re capturing a live feed via HD-SDI. I could be wrong, but it would make no sense whatsoever for them to do that way, and it would actually be more work for the camera. So if I’m right, recording uncompressed directly from the Canon using a Decklink is actually better quality than HDCam – since HDCam is not uncompressed.