Unique Job – Salary Range Advice

[Moira Elefson]

You’re defiantly right, I’ve tried to subsidize my missing salary (that I think I deserve – I’d never say this to anyone at work!) by getting as much training and learning resources I can. Like I mentioned to Walter, I’ve been preparing my new site/portfolio/demo reel so that I can see what happens when I jump back into the market. All these new skill have already come in handy on a personal stance; building a nice flash site, demo-reel, lots of portfolio pieces to use, DVDs and much more. I just hope there are other positions out there that need someone like me.

Thanks Bill

[Moira Elefson]

That’s defiantly a good way of looking at it, and makes me feel better, especially since I’m only 23. I do like what I do here, and I defiantly like the people I work with – but it does get hard not ever working with peers or having mentors present at work (that’s why the internet is so great).

Thankfully my supervisor supports me a lot and has done a lot to help push this whole situation as well. The goal is to actually change my job title to not only make it much more accurate, but also change pay-grades. Again, this is all a hope right now.

To push for the whole salary/job-title renegotiation I’ve been preparing a booklet about me, my work at Valspar, my future work, and lots and lots of other things relating to this renegotiation. Well this booklet is now almost 40 pages. It’s been revised about 5 times and is just about ready to go to the people that matter. I’ve already been warned that most of them will just read the summary (that’s why we wrote one) and just acknowledge I did all the other work and research throughout the book.

Thanks Steve

[Moira Elefson]

Ha! That’s actually not a bad thing to consider. If in the future, once my new site and reel are rolled out, I obtain a different position in Pittsburgh, I actually could do some freelance stuff for them. They did bring in freelance photographers before I started.

Problem is, when I start looking for a job, I’m not going to limit myself to any location. If there’s a great job in the USA – I’ll go there. I’d actually love to try living in a new city. Not a bad thought at all tho John

Thanks

[Moira Elefson]

About doing X, Y, and Z tasks – I’m starting to find out how true that is with corporations! But it has working in my favor as far as learning.

I did actually bring up this whole salary/position renegotiating during my mid-year review. The process with HR and my managers is just SLOW – but at least it gives me time to prepare more!

I’ve actually been preparing all my ‘defenses’ towards my work/savings like you mentioned in example 2. Defiantly sounds better. I’ve had some trouble getting some local rates for video and photography services, and I didn’t want to ask for fake bids on projects we wouldn’t actually outsource – I would think that’s bad practice – So I’ve come up with some general rates/fees that I’ve found from other cities and tried to adapt them for Pittsburgh.

Some good advice, some I’ve already been taking into consideration.

Thanks Mike.

[Tom Grotting]

[Mike Cohen] “PS – Google yourself”

took the thought right out of my mind!

Tom Grotting
Digital Pictures
Minneapolis

[Mark Suszko]

Bill really said it well already. Others did too; you got paid while learning. I got winded, just reading all the stuff you do! You sound like you are doing the equivalent of two full-timers at least. Definitely ask for more money. Have your demo reel and portfolio already made. Send the resume out, try to get a meeting with some of the local places you’d be interested in. Get your self in the right frame of mind, and also strike a little terror into the office, by taking home a little piece of all your personal effects every day, until your office area starts to look bare. This sends a subtle signal to HR that you are really thinking about going, and in fact already have a new place waiting, and those around you can begin to imagine the void you will leave if you go.

As far as salary, rule one is, first guy to name a figure, loses. Do not be afraid to sit there saying nothing; let the weight of the silence fall on them until they break and say something. Old interrogator trick, the very pregnant pause reaction.

Rule two is, they have to believe that you are willing to walk away if you can’t come to an agreement. It helps if you believe it yourself, and to that end, if you get an offer elsewhere, you could ask the current place to match it or let you go. This is the strongest position, and you’d be surprised how often it works, because while everyone is replaceable in time, you represent an investment of training time and experience that means significant time and work to replace as well, while the void left is hurting the office’s productivity the whole while. And a lot of places are too lazy or cheap to want to go thru all the hassles of replacing a good staff person, and will cave to a reasonable raise, just to avoid that hassle. And as has been said, many get complacent and lose sight of just how much work you do and how vital to the smooth running of the place you are, unless they get an occasional scare thrown into them. That’s how it is with personal relationships as well, you know: when suddenly faced with the momentary possibility of losing someone in a relationship, you react with a re-evaluation and reappraisal of them, and a renewed commitment. While we’re on psychology, some management types won’t really respect a worker who hasn’t challenged them with the raise-or-I-walk thing. If you survive the negotiations successfully, expect to get treated better in the long run as well, because they now realize you are your own man and can only be pushed so far.

If they don’t believe you would walk, they own you, and will dictate terms. This is why you strip your office of years’ worth of personal effects, and suddenly dress more formally for the weeks upcoming to the negotiation. Take random personal time hours off in mid-day, requested just a few days in advance. Come in/come back from the time off dressed like you’ve been to an interview; if quizzed, say nothing, if pressed, demure and say your normal stuff is at the cleaners, you had to go to a funeral, a date, church, the bank, whatever, and let them come to their own false conclusions that you’re interviewing elsewhere on your lunch hours. It’s psiwar.

Begin the negotiation dance by beating around the topic, describing the industry standards you found. Don’t name a figure, but have one in mind, and leave room to be talked down. Also, the money alone is not all there is to negotiations: getting better medical and insurance and dental and retirement contributions, other subsidies like paying for training, travel to trade shows, Entry fees for awards competitions, magazine subscriptions, transportation, etc. as well as vacation or overall hours, all of that can be a major part of the deal, and the company may be in a better position financially to give you some of the “frills” as deductible tax-write-offs for themselves, so to them it’s free money, but to you, a major lifestyle upgrade, letting you do more stuff with the salary you get. So when there doesn’t seem to be any more motion on the salary level, switch the topic to the benefits.

This is never an easy time, what you’re going thru. You’re like an arthopod who must pop out of the old shell so it can grow, or it will die.
All you can do to feel better is to prepare yourself as best as you can, cover all the eventualities, have researched facts at your command, be ready to back up your argument, your sales pitch, with facts. If you are spiritual, go do some contemplative prayer. if you have friends or family, go be with them and cheer yourself up.

Go home and make up some ads about yourself and your talents; only you will ever see them, but it is a useful exercise in self-evalutation and motivation. People think asking for raises is somehow egotistic. Ego is not always a bad thing. Ego is what we have to drive us onwards when we’re out of juice and nobody else believes in us, BUT us. It is what keeps you hammering at impossible barriers until they crumble, trying new things you never tried before. That little bit of illogical and undeserved impertinence is the fragile tissue of a shield that keeps us all from cowering like gibbering monkeys before the infinite vastness of a hostile and uncaring universe. You are worth your wage, the bible says. You are asking for what’s rightfully yours, for what you have earned, no more, and certainly, no less. This is the social contract, and you are here to collect your due. Believe in the miracle that is yourself. BELIEVE!

Hang in there, baby! 🙂

(I am available for locker room halftime speeches at reasonable rates)

[Moira Elefson]

@Mark Suszko

I’m really trying hard to finish my reel and website. I’ve ready TONS of articles about salary negotiations and stuff like that and they all say the same thing about having another offer on the table to use during the negotiations. Use it as your muscle but be prepared to take it, which is what you’re saying. I defiantly need to find something fast to do this. I do think it will help. Again, about saying the salary first – I would think that makes sense too – I don’t want to say a number first. I want to see what they say (to see if they actually did any market research). If the number is still low, I would like to negotiate and get it higher, but I need failsafe option (another job) to do that. What if they say some low number that makes me laugh, and then they don’t negotiate higher and I don’t have another job lined up; I’d feel like an idiot because I would just be like “Ok” and go sit back at my desk.

Wow- A lot of good things said there! I do think they underestimate me when it comes to being pushy or aggressive (in a good way) so this is a good opportunity to change that as well. Also – Like I said, I was the first ‘creative’ ever hired here so my starting salary was based off some completely arbitrary job title. Now I’m not even asking for a large salary (compared to industry standards) but I just want to be paid fair! Maybe I even deserve more, but I’m just asking for fair right now. The problem is, my pay now is SO low, that when I ask for a more appropriate salary, it’s going to look like a huge increase, especially if they look at it from a percent point of view. I guess there is no getting around that though.

I love the strategy of letting them think I’m interviewing. They’re very lenient about taking off a few hours during the day and making them up and stuff like that, but they’ll defiantly notice – not to mention dress code is very casual, so dressing nice will certainly stand out.

Benefits: I’ve included a large part of my salary re-negotiation booklet to addressing this but I didn’t even think of some of the things you’ve listed. I’d love to go to some of the [video] industry trade-shows but never thought about having Valspar send me. That’s defiantly something they would do, especially if training is involved. I already can get subscriptions to magazines, all the books and training stuff I want, travel reimbursement (even if it’s 10 miles to photograph something), and our benefits package is nice – but I don’t think it’s negotiable. Since I’m a one-man-team, I don’t think any of my work is worth of awards, but is that typical for a company to do for its creative department/employee? And what about joining industry groups like AIGA (only video ones)?

My state of mind is better than it’s ever been. I don’t know what part of my life is contributing to it the most, but I just feel so motivated for the past year. That’s actually how this all came about – including my new site and reel. I haven’t watched a movie, played a game, or read an entertaining book since probably Christmas (ok so maybe a few movies), but I just spend all my time working on video/photo/audio/design related stuff. I love it and it helps my work at my company. I’m pretty excited to get into the negotiations since as you suggested, I have a lot of research and facts.

Ego: In a couple of books I read, they say the same thing about how when selling yourself during renegotiations… don’t hold back. Be ‘about-yourself’ and brag – it’s the one time you should and deserve to, but don’t embellish or exaggerate things.

Haha got some good laughs there. Thanks a lot Mark. I may read all these posts a few more times during the next couple of weeks.

[Moira Elefson]

The PS Google thing… Are you being specific – as in there is something bad you guys found when google-ing me?!

I tried it, have several times in the past, but again today from seeing your post. This whole thread came right up… That could be bad eh?

Also – I wanted to say Thanks to everyone for first
– reading my huge original post.
and second – taking the time to respond with lots of great advice!

[Moira Elefson]

I know it’s really hard, and if I don’t get any – I completely understand why – but does anyone have any idea what might be “fair” for my position? Take into account that yes, I will make less than a non-corporate peer, and also take into account that I’m located in Pittsburgh.

Would $40-$45K be way to much? I remember reading somewhere that some entry-level designers were getting about $35K average.

[Grinner Hester]

Set it where you want it. If they can’t do that, move onward and upward. Moving on is the only way you’ll ever see a five figure raise, brother. Don’t wait on them. They hired a student. And don’t get mad at them either. Just be ready to move to a different market with a big grin on your face.
Enjoy, man.