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Understanding smart rendering using cineform codec
I Understand what smart rendering is but not how to implement it for my purposes. And will having the smart rendering option in neo’s hd link selected when converting files to be edited then rendered in vegas affect the results If I decide not to smart render later in vegas, or I just render in vegas to a file type that doesn’t support smart rendering?
I’m at the point where I’ve edited my entire video, effects and all. I replaced all my original files to the newly created cineform avi files and I’m ready to render only I know not what file type to render as.
All I wan’t to do is render it to something lossless so that I can upload it to youtube and get the best quality results after youtube compresses the file.
My files are HD 720p
And why does the neoscene option exist for smart render I thought smart rendering was applied when you render in Vegas? What does Neo do when converting the files originally that has to do with the smart rendering you might choose to do later when you render in Vegas?
i’m using latest versions of neoscene and vegas pro.
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19 Replies
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[brad barnes] “All I wan’t to do is render it to something lossless so that I can upload it to youtube and get the best quality results after youtube compresses the file.”
Actually, you don’t want a lossless format for YouTube because it would be too big to upload. Use the Sony AVC encoder with the Internet 1280×720-30p template. this is designed specifically for services like YouTube and Vimeo. It will give you outstanding quality.
[brad barnes] “And why does the neoscene option exist for smart render I thought smart rendering was applied when you render in Vegas? What does Neo do when converting the files originally that has to do with the smart rendering you might choose to do later when you render in Vegas?”
Apparently, there are two ways that NeoScene can encode the file and one is not compatible with Vegas’ smart render. So if you want to be able to smart render in Vegas, you need to tell NeoScene so that it produces a file that is compatible with smart rendering.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Sorry it took so long for this reply.
Ok, thanks. On youtube it said to convert your file as little as possible and not to compress because they are going to anyways, and with their java uploader you can upload files up to 20GB. I tried uploading cineform avi but youtube didnt regocnize the codec.
So are you saying that even if I was willing to deal with the long upload times a lossless codec like maybe lagarith or whatever youtube would recognize wouldn’t give me better quality than the sony avc?Also all new files uploaded to youtube now will be converted to webm not mp4 h264 so does this change things for what is the best format to upload in?
And if I go sony avc and rendered to better quality than the internet template you mentioned and I used one of the hd templates wouldn’t that help out the quality?
I’ll be quicker to respond this time it was a long week sorry bout that.
Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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[brad barnes] “So are you saying that even if I was willing to deal with the long upload times a lossless codec like maybe lagarith or whatever youtube would recognize wouldn’t give me better quality than the sony avc?”
No, I’m not saying that. Uploading a lossless format could give you better quality. The question is, will you notice it? I’ve had no problem with feeding Sony AVC files to YouTube but you can certainly upload a lossless format if you want.
[brad barnes] “Also all new files uploaded to youtube now will be converted to webm not mp4 h264 so does this change things for what is the best format to upload in?”
Good point. I don’t know for sure, but if you send them high quality video, it should re-encode to high quality video. It’s only when you give them marginal video that it degrades significantly. I haven’t tested with the new webm encodes so I can’t say.
[brad barnes] “And if I go sony avc and rendered to better quality than the internet template you mentioned and I used one of the hd templates wouldn’t that help out the quality?”
You could always increase the bit-rate on the Internet templates. They default to 6Mbps but it goes up to 20Mbps. Most AVCHD cameras only shoot 16Mbps. So you have to ask yourself, how much quality do you need? And that’s my point… yea you can upload a 20GB uncompressed file but if it doesn’t look any better than a 1GB AVCHD file at 16Mbps then what’s the point?
You should probably upload a few experimental clips. Increase the bit rate until you can’t see a difference in quality. Write down that bit rate for future reference because that’s all the bits you really need. 😉
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Ok I think I understand what to do now. Thanks for all the help!
It seems like you answer every video forum question on the internet. If you google a video question, all the search results that are forums are all the creativecow forum and you are the person answering the question 99% of the time.Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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ok maybe I don’t have everything figured out!
Every format I try to render to doesnt render a smooth video it starts and stops everysecond throughout the video. Some play for more seconds than others before they pause, and start again.
My initial files were from the samsung q10 camcorder I think they are mp4. I transcoded to intermediate codec cineform to edit in vegas, or really just before I rendered in vegas i switched to cineform file before that I had mpeg 2 proxy. Anyways, I did alot of time stretching and applied some chroma key and some other effects that put a lot of fuzzyness and sharpened some clips. Brightened some clips. Also resized some clips to fit side by side in one frame, used cookie cutter, video overlay some text ect.
So I thought it would be better to render from the uncompressed cineform opposed to the original mp4.
But everytime I render, unless I render to ciniform yuv the video playes improperly like I elaborated on above. Lagarith rgb yuv rgba, sonyyuv, mainconcept mp4, sony avc, mpeg 2 ect
My xilisoft video converter cant convert cineform files so I cant use that render to convert plus that would be adding an extra unnecessary conversion that will slightly degrade the quality anyways.
Could it be I don’t have enough Ram? I’m using a mac mini running windows 7 its 2.4 ghz dual core with 2gb of ram.
Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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Some comments to help your workflow:
[brad barnes] “So I thought it would be better to render from the uncompressed cineform opposed to the original mp4.”
You always want to render from the CineForm files. Once you convert the MP4 files to CineForm you can archive them to a off-line hard drive and forget about them. You don’t need the MP4 files anymore. The CineForm files are higher quality (4:2:2 vs 4:2:0) than your source and can withstand multiple re-renders will no visible loss. All rendering should be done from the CineForm files.
[brad barnes] “But everytime I render, unless I render to ciniform yuv the video playes improperly like I elaborated on above. “
Then render to CineForm. This will be your master file to make other copies from. So… render to CineForm (hopefully this will be perfect) then start a new project, drop the CineForm rendered file on the timeline, and render to any other format that you want. This sounds like the best workflow for you.
[brad barnes] “Could it be I don’t have enough Ram? I’m using a mac mini running windows 7 its 2.4 ghz dual core with 2gb of ram.”
Well… 2GB of memory is not a lot for Windows 7 by try rendering to CineForm and then your other formats.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Ok I did it and it worked. I rendered a sony/avc mp4 from my cineform files but theres a problem. The video is ever so slightly ahead of the audio (or behind I forgot). This is a problem because it is a music video and the words aren’t lining up with the mouth of the artist performing on screen.
How do I fix this???Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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[brad barnes] ” The video is ever so slightly ahead of the audio (or behind I forgot).”
That’s odd. Are there a lot of FX on the audio? I wonder if some plug-in you are using is causing a delay in processing that’s not being compensated for which would cause the audio to be behind.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Nope. The audio is just a song I had mixed and mastered by an audio engineer. I just imported the song into vegas and left it alone. I then started importing video and editing it as I recorded it day by day untill I finally finished. I never touched the audio or did anything to it.
Maybe if I render it again with the same settings it will not happen this time.
Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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I think I know what happened. Though I’ve already deleted the first render, when I rendered to sonyavc mp4 again (but at highest quality this time though I don’t think this had anything to do with fixing the problem). When I watched it the audio and video were in sinc this time but when I skipped ahead when watching it again the audio and video were out of sinc a bit. I then watched it from the beginning and didn’t skip ahead and the audio and video were back in sinc.
So I’m convinced the problem is in my windows media player and not the rendered file.Google is my brain now my real one has atrophied.
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