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Understanding Day Rates
I was recently working as a PA on a gig and I had a conversation with one of the crew members about possibly getting my work. After the gig was over I emailed him telling him to keep me in mind for future work. He responded with “send me your day and 1/2 day rates”. To be honest with you i’m not quite sure what this means. So far i’ve only gotten PA gigs where there is already an established “Pay Per Day rate” which is generally 150-200 a day and when I get my check Im a bit confused about the break down of the payments per day.
I really get confused and anxious when filling out my timecards because I don’t want to put down the wrong info and end up shorting my self.
My goal is to make it in the camera department and hopefully work steady as an AC and make my way to becoming a DP.
Can someone help me understand a bit more about day rates?
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5 Replies
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You didn’t mention what end of the biz you want to enter and where you are, I’d need to know that to suggest a range.
As a DP and/or Producer I often ask new people their rate, and when there’s time I enter them into a Word doc called Local Crew, which I update several times a year. I will have their rate in parentheses next to their phone number and most crew members will have a range rather than a plain rate. It’s good to sign off with, “but I’m flexible”, or “will work with your budget”, because you at least want them to call and get the conversation started. If you want to work with someone new who represents possible future business, you may want to do all in your power to encourage them to give you a first try to see how good you are, that’s been my technique. Show them you’re: Fast, Creative, Reliable, Strong, Tough, Doesn’t Complain, Good Around Clients, Babies their gear, Arrives Early, etc. Only by getting that first try can you prove how good you are, so a low “introductory special for the first day only” was a good tactic for me. I’d say when I was AC, first day is $X (which would be discounted) and then I’d list my “regular” rate and say ” rates good until end of this year”. Very important to state that it is a ten hour day, overtime between ten and twelve, double time after 12. If you don’t you will be run into the ground. I have seen many arguments start in OT when some guys were being paid more than others, so list that up front. My last staff gig in 1979 I fell asleep at the wheel after a 16 hour day in the pre-dawn darkness, crossed into the oncoming lanes, that’s how long the hours are in this horrid biz. By charging double time at least you may be able to afford the Motel 6 they were too cheap to get you. But I digress…
A Half Day is not to be taken literally as half your rate, I call mine a “Short Day”, because after all, you still have to commute and if you’re a good “up ‘n comer”, you get there at least a half hour early in case there’s bad traffic, so even though they call it a “Half Day”, really your whole day is blown. There’s an expression: “If you’re on time, you’re late.” So even with a short day you need to get there early.
Most DPs and ACs providing gear will call a Half Day 4 or 5 hours “portal-to-portal”, meaning from their front stoop, but we who live way out in the suburbs can’t penalize a client for us wanting to live so far away, so a Half Day becomes 4 hours “on location”. That’s most of the US, 4 hours on location, but that really turns into longer hours. It’s best if this short or half day is connected with other full days and you want to be known as “flexible”, because a shoot may have to go into another day just because of the weather or something unforeseen.
Since you are trying to transition from PA to AC there are similarities, yet some major differences, in terms of impressing the people who will hire you. You want to demonstrate a skill set so the rate you send is commensurate with that level of expertise. If the DP is using his own gear, like myself, breaking a new guy in who learns how it is all safely packed, what goes with what, how to set up, and most importantly: Won’t hurt my gear!, then I will prioritize hiring him or her. Very important. This way you become indispensable to that DP. Also, how to pack his car, van or truck. Every DP has his own puzzle going so when a crew member learns how it all fits I’m forced to keep hiring him or her. My point is, if a DP you AC’d for asks for your card and to send in your rates in an email, that means he was impressed with you otherwise he wouldn’t have asked.
So in sum, you can list an “Introductory 1st Day Special” which is discounted, and then your rates for 10, 12 and 12+ hour day, and then your Half Day, which is usually done at 2/3rd your full rate because half of a rookie rate is too small to make it worth your while. But what’s most important is the wording sucking up to the DPs as to how you want to make their life easier by doing all the heavy lifting, their work will look better because you’re there, in other words: Benefit Statements. The greater the age difference the more you should do all the heavy lifting and wow, they will start loving you because most cameramen suffer from physical ailments from years of shooting. It would also help greatly if you learn and know the basics of audio to at least do interview audio, and you should be helpful with the lighting and media management. ACs are only “true” ACs nowadays in LA, NYC and on big features, otherwise all crew should be utility infielders. As I need to pick up total strangers around the US (usually on Production Hub), I would not hire someone who list he or she is only an “AC”, but rather I will look for what I would call an “Intelligent Grip”, who can also AC, help with lighting and basic audio and do ALL the heavy work. So I don’t think having AC as your label is helpful unless you’re in LA or NYC or trying to impress people at parties. you don’t want to shoot yourself in the foot.
But…what the Hell do you want to do all the above for? You’re thirty years too late. If you’d like a “normal” life, with a good salary, get out now before it’s too late. The hours are killer, the prices have plummeted, the competition is intense. I looked at this forum tonight, as I do every few days, and I was planning on posting a rant about losing several bids in a row to incredibly cheap competitors, so beware that if you ain’t a rich kid this is not for you, unless you can find one to marry (don’t agree to sign the pre-nup!). Watch this, take two aspirin and call me in the morning. It’s about the people in the biz, mainly ACs, who died falling asleep at the wheel after a super long day, as I almost did. Hey, what other profession do you get to obliviously speed into oncoming traffic? The ACs and lighting crew are the first to arrive and the last to leave:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbd5M6U8syU
Crazy to want to enter the biz in 2017!
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Bravo. Excellent post.
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Thanks Mark. I think if one is young, is a workaholic, has a tremendous aptitude for lenses and electronics, lives in LA or NYC, has an uncle or father in the union with some clout so he can be admitted, has no intentions of getting married or have kids, no plans for a white picket fence in the suburbs, then a career as an AC with an eye to making at as a DP is a possibility. It was easy in my heyday to make a major profit when it was so well paying and you didn’t need to own so many camera bodies.
Good luck Charles!
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com -
Thanks for the advice and warnings! Oh and Im based in Chicago
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Hi Charles,
Nice coincidence. Please email me and maybe we can work together or I can at least steer you. I’m winding down my career and biz. If you do want to pursue AC to DP, which is the realm of Gear Freaks, please monitor the DVXUser.com forums and learn the lingo and keep up with all the (constant) new models and advances, here’s two forums that are the most popular because they are following the Sony FS5&7 and Canon C100 & 300 crowd:
https://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?219-PMW-Cameras-(-amp-temp-FS7-FS5)
There’ also a forum similar to this one there called Distribution & Marketing and you should re-post your question there, but beware that rates on the coast are higher than here in Chicago (those damn coastal elites!).
Also bookmark and regularly visit these sites until you understand the geek speak, because shooters are gear junkies that is what they prefer to talk about and if you can’t keep up with their conversation they will raise an eyebrow:
Even though I have been doing this a long time I can not keep up on all these tech advances, after all, software/firmware tweaking is a lot of what a DP is now expected to know and do. Worse, we are expected to keep buying and providing the latest camera(s), yet not charge more, which is why I am stepping off the hamster wheel. Even if your present camera produces a beautiful image, if your competitors have “the latest” at the same or below what you are charging, you’re toast. Video DPing is now a very Darwinian Brutally Capitalist situation.
Best regards,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
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