Trying to understand 10-bit BM capture

[Michael Großmann]

Hallo,

I have the same result using AE on WinXP when trying to render a file and only “16.7 million colors” are available for both AVI and MOV files. As in my previous thread I ask about these 10bit problems with other WinXP programms, too.
https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=124&postid=858088

Luke Maslen said that WinXP programs can only render effects with 8-bit
https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=124&postid=858164

so it might be possible that on a MAC you have the same problems with using/exporting 10-bit as I do.

I hope that helps.

regards M.Gro

[Cmerritt]

Thanks for your reponse.
I read your thread but Luke Maslen’s response doesn’t make much sense to me.

“the number of bits used to store the movie on your hard disk is completely independant of the number of bits used by an application to process the file. An application might use 8, 16, 24 or 32-bit processing but that does not relate to how the file is then stored on disk. That final task is performed by the codec, which could be the 8-bit Microsoft codec or the 10-bit Blackmagic codec.” – Luke Maslen

I understand this, but when I opened the actual 10-bit capture from FCP, a BM codec file, without any processing whatsoever, AE reported it as “millions of colors”.

It seems as if the BM codec is not actually capturing 10-bit at all, or it’s not store it as 10-bit, or Ae is not reporting it correctly.

For example, I just now rendered from a 16-bpc AE project a BM file. It gave me the option of saving “trillions of colors”. Okay, that’s good. But when I re-import the file, AE says the file has “millions of colors”.

I don’t get it.

[Pentti Kakkori]

If I import 10bit BlackMagic Quicktime file to Combustion4, it says Format: Quicktime (30bit).

[Michael Großmann]

Hallo,

I found out, that you get Quicktime (30bit) if you export BMD 10bit 4:2:2 in Combustion4 and reimport and also the gradient seams to be ok.
But it did not work with BMD 10bit RGB 4:4:4. There you only get Quicktime (24bit).

@cmerritt
The only way I see to get 10bit in AE would be using Combustion to export the files to a Cineon sequence (but only if you get Quicktime(30Bit)), import the sequence in AE, edit the files, export the files to Cineon, go back to Combustion and export it to BMD 10bit again.
Using the export of AE doesn’t work with BMD 10bit neither YUV 4:2:2 nor RGB 4:4:4 at least for WinXP. As I said before you can only use 16.7 million colors the rest is gray.
I know switching to Combustion just for converting is a bit weird but until there is no new AE version that CAN use more than 16.7 millon colors with BMD 10bit…
Or can FCP5 export to Cineon Sequence?

What I do not understand is why Combustion4 can use 10Bit with Quicktime 4:2:2 but not with RGB 4:4:4.
And what about AE? The codec should be the same for both programs!?

best regards
M.Gro

[Pentti Kakkori]

there is something in BM support pages for AE users, only Mac I’m afraid.
https://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail.asp?techID=125

[Bill Buchanan]

That 10-bit files resulting from effects applied to 10-bit files are not possible with XP is not good news.

Does anyone know whether or not the 64-bit version of XP features this limitation?

Bill Buchanan
Buchanan Film Co.

[Cmerritt]

He didn’t really say it’s a limitation of WinXP, but of the software. That if a given software uses avi or quicktime as a default format, those are only 8-bit.

However, I have used Aftereffects on WinXP with 16-bit projects, and that software notifies you if an effect is 16-bit or will truncate to 8-bit.

So that limitation is software dependant.

[Michael Großmann]

Hallo,

As I do not know any program for 64bit XP for cut/composing I see no way of testing it, especially because there are no Decklink drivers for WinXP 64Bit.

Maybe Decklink could set a good example to the developers of such programs by programming a 64bit driver.

However even if Combustion4 for example does not exist in a 64bit version right now there are advantages.
Since version 4.0.1 you can use up to 4GB instead of only 2GB in WinXP 64Bit (or even in WinXP 32Bit, if you use the /3gb switch).
Unfortunately with 32Bit you can only see about 3GB even if you would have 8GB installed.
So if there would be a 64bit driver I could be able to use the last of my 4GB which I can’t at the moment.

regards
M.Gro