trying to layoff to Digibeta, LTC problems

[John Pale]

it sounds like a reference problem.

make sure the reference signal you are getting from the Horita is terminated on the deck.

If your problem persists, try without using the sync generator at all. If it works, then you know that was the problem.

[Bob Zelin]

I bet money that when you go into the Kona Control panel under Control, it is set to VIDEO IN instead of free run or Ref In (for the external lock of a black generator to the Kona and the VTR). Make sure you are NOT on Video In, and you will be ok.

bob Zelin

[Miska Draskoczy]

I checked the kona control panel and I already had genlock set to ‘Ref In’ not Freerun or Video In.

I finally got it to work by setting the OUTREF setting on the deck to INPUT instead of REF, i.e. its getting its reference from the video input signal, not the reference in. I hooked up both the sdi and component inputs to the Kona outputs as I think it gets the sync from the analog inputs even though I am laying off via SDI.

I’m wondering now if my bsg-20 is bunk (purchased off ebay), I feel like this is the second time now I’ve had weird sync issues that couldn’t be pinned down, the last time with our beta deck. Does anyone recommend a newer, although still basic (read: inexpensive) sync generator?

thanks for your help guys…

-z

[Bob Zelin]

1) I ASSUME you mean BSG-50 and not BSG-20, and CERTAINLY not the BG-50 which is NOT a black generator.

2) The BSG-50 will appear to not work if you do not terminate the signal with a BNC 75 ohm terminator, or with the 75 ohm Term ON switch on the VTR. The AJA does not have a switch, so if you are going into a K-Box, and don’t have a BNC terminator, the BSG-50 will do nothing.

3) There are almost no multi output inexpensive sync generators on the market. The best one, which is very difficult to get delivery of, is the Sigma BSG26N
https://www.sigmaelectronics.com/generation_analog.htm
which is just a couple of bucks more than the Horita, but is sold only thru pro dealers – not B+H, Markertek, etc. You will not suffer the “you must terminate” problem with the Sigma.

There are lots of single output black generators, like from Burst, but you need multiple outputs. The ESE black generators are not stable, and AVID specificially states never to use these with AVID Adrenaline’s. I have personally used ESE black generators, and they are not very good (but they are cheap).

There certainly are countless black sync generators on the market, ranging from Kramer (Ocean Matrix, Comprehensive) – all the way to Leitch, Tektronix, Snell and Wilcox, etc. but all of these range from $1000 to $15,000.

The way to tell if your Horita black generator is working or not WITHOUT A SCOPE, is to play back a tape in your Digi Beta VTR, and disconnect the Ref Video input. The stop light will flash on and off, indicating that it is not getting a black reference signal. If you monitor the SUPER out of the VTR, you will see a NON STD REF indicator as well. Now, plug in your Horita black, (make sure it has a terminated input), and the blue flashing stop light should stop flashing. If it keeps flashing (and you are terminated), the Horita is not working.

Bob Zelin

[Miska Draskoczy]

yeah, I meant the bsg-50, not 20, my mistake.

I’m not using a K-box, so I have the kona ref bnc hooked up directly to the bsg-50. I have (and had) the terminator switch set to ‘on’ on the deck above the sync input, also knowing about the termination issue.

I followed your steps, played a tape back with the generator off – stop button light flashes, no sync. then turned the generator back on – stop button goes solid. (incidentally there was no ‘non std ref’ alert on the super output, might not be a code on this deck, didn’t see it in the manual). I also tried this by unhooking all cables, not just turning off the box, same result.

So I guess my bsg-50 is fine after all.

Now here’s the weird part. I went back and plugged in the sdi out from kona->in to deck, (I had unhooked everything but sync and monitor to try your test) and now it loses sync…. So in other words, play back tape with no sdi in – fine, sync. play tape with sdi in connected to kona, even though I’m not playing anything on the kona or using the mac at all – loses sync, stop button flashes.

so some of this is still a mystery to me… but at least I figured out the work around by using the ‘input’ sync option, and not relying on the generator at all, so I can get my work done.

thanks again.

-z

[David Smith]

I know that Z has determined his black burst generator is working, but I wanted to add my experience with the Sigma folks to the thread as it might be helpful to someone in the future.

I purchased the product that Bob mentioned in his post, the Sigma BSG-26N, on an Ebay auction for a pretty nice price. Worked fine for a few months then one day I noticed the Kona control panel wasn’t listing a ref. In signal. Sure enough the power light on the Sigma was off. I played around with it a bit, checked the fuse, etc. No go, so I called Sigma to see if it would be cost effective to get it fixed.

The receptionist put me through directly to the head of their tech support group. I had seen his name listed on their web site. He asked for the serial number to check if the unit was still under warranty. I said I was sure it wasn’t, it looks like it’s been in use for a couple of years and that I had bought it used. “Let me check” he says, and comes back on in a few seconds to tell me “yes, that unit is covered until August, and it doesn’t matter where you bought it.”

I shipped it off and it was repaired and back to me in a few days, no charge. Good product and wonderful service.

Regards,
David