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trying to collect on a prooject
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I know. BAD, BAD BAD. A point I hope many others can learn from. Window burns are your friend. But I really trusted this guy and had built a solid relationship with him. Unfortunately, he left the company.
All of the minor fixes they asked for I did send window burns for approval. It is the original spots that were approved that they are still airing. But they have not paid me one penny. So that is one of my questions, can I get them on copyright infringement?
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[Nick Griffin] “Far more often than not that means Don’t do business with car dealers.”
Sadly, that is often true, unfortunately they tend to be not a very honest sort (I say that as a grandson of a looooong-time Chevy dealer, although a very honest one).
We actually do LOADS of car dealer commercials. No, they never “make the reel,” but they sure do pay the bills and come around each and every month, regular as clockwork (around the middle of the month, when all the manufacturers release their deals and incentives for the month).
I’ve never been burned by a car dealer, even once… BUT, I’ve always done it this way: we have never ever worked directly for a dealer, we have always worked for their advertising agencies. Ergo, it’s not the dealer that owes me money, it’s the agency. And they are all very long-time clients of ours (with many other clients, not just car dealers) so they tend to keep us paid. My theory has always been that if a dealship did not have an advertising agency in place, they weren’t serious enough about advertising for me to fool with.
Unfortunately one agency buddy of mine (fortunately not a client of mine) is still owed more than $100K from a deadbeat car dealer (and is in the process of suing him).
I have also found that the higher-end the car, the more stingy the management is. Our Honda client has no problem with shoveling wheelbarrow loads of cash out for production, never even asking in advance what something is gonna cost… whereas the Porsche dealer grumbles at anything over a couple thousand bucks. Not just those two, I have several examples of that (Chevy/Ford/Isuzu/Chrysler vs. Lexus/BMW/LandRover/Jaguar).
On a side note, the cheaper the car, the better the running footage reels are too. The Buick reel looks like it was shot by Spielberg. The BMW reel?… looks like my mother shot it (no disrespect to my mom intended).
As for YOUR financial woes, we are fortunate to have only had two bad debts in 11 years of production… but once when a difficult client owed us money (a small amount, maybe a grand) it was easy beans for our attorney to just fire off a letter, with the copy of the lawsuit he intended to file (which of course he never had to). I think he charged us $150 or so for it… and it got us paid promptly. I’m not so sure that I agree with the opinion that yours is too small amount to get litigious about… it’s your money, you worked for it, and deserve it.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[dvproducer] “can I get them on copyright infringement?”
Can you? Sure. Should you? No. Don’t waste any more of your time or mental energy on this hole of negativity. Get what you can and move on. Car dealers and other forms of retail are why I went headlong into B2B, Corporate and Industrial.
What hasn’t been discussed, and I suspect is a central issue, is the fact that these guys have no respect for you or what you do, therefore they see no downside to them for trying to screw you. At some point it might even be a form of game for them: “Let’s see just how much we can F*** with this kid.” In their minds there are dozens more production companies like you who will take their work, so why give a crap about any one of them?
Todd makes a good point about working through agencies. That certainly raises the bar. But then there are bad agencies, too. Especially ones that think net 120 is fast pay. Overcoming this too is a mater of respect and appreciation of what you do.
And just to clarify: YES. There are some good car dealers out there. And there certainly are some good agencies of all sizes. Work on your sales technique and presentation skills and work on generating respect for yourself starting with your very first contact.
And, dvdproducer, if you respond directly to this post STOP CALLING ME “MR.” dammit!
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Thanks Nick,
I do believe you are correct with the respect issue, and yes this may be a game to them. All the more reason I don’t want them to win. If I felt they had a legitimate reason for only paying a portion of the bill then I would take it. But I think they are doing this simply because they expect me to accept a partial payment.
As far as copyright goes, I agree that would be a hole of negativity. I was wondering if I were to include the possibility in a collection letter is there any merit behind it. Mind you I don’t intend on taking it that far, I think the mere threat of small claims court will suffice.
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Look, D (short for dvdproducer)-
They’re not taking you seriously and they’re not likely to take a letter from you seriously and maybe even a letter from an attorney. They know that at anytime they can simply pay the invoice and the whole thing goes away. The downside of this for you is how much time and energy you’ve wasted getting to that point.
You could go the copyright route, but for this amount of money WHAT AN ENORMOUS WASTE OF YOUR TIME. Get what you can and move on to POSITIVE new projects. Sometimes bad guys win. Hope that karma gets them in the end.
Here’s an idea: Get someone who looks like they could be a local TV reporter and stage a stand-up — on PUBLIC land — in front of their dealership. It won’t take long for someone from inside to come out to ask what’s going on. Have your “reporter” say it’s a story about local businesses who don’t pay their bills —– WAIT a minute! Bad idea. This could get YOU sued. It’s far more fun to dream about stuff like this than it is to actually do it.
D, I’ve been where you are now. I was screwed over by a big multi-location car dealer when I was just starting out. Take my advice. Get what you can. Move on. Identify their competition and see what you can do for them.
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After reading your post, I couldn’t wait to read other’s comments before I say this:
“Now of course all this would be much easier if I had a written contract from the beginning, but I don
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Actually, the judge will be equally ticked off that dvproducer is doing business without contracts. I’ve heard stories of contractors/business owners suing and getting angry rants from the judge because they did work without any legal agreement.
CONTRACTS, PEOPLE, CONTRACTS! 🙂
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[beenyweenies] “Actually, the judge will be equally ticked off that dvproducer is doing business without contracts. I’ve heard stories of contractors/business owners suing and getting angry rants from the judge because they did work without any legal agreement.”
While I’m not advocating working without an agreement or contract, business is in fact conducted all over the country, every day, based entirely on verbal agreements, which are recognized as binding in almost every city, state and county in the nation.
In this case, the company that ordered or “verbally contracted” for the work has been airing the commercials, but without paying the creator. That is 100% transparent to any judge as a clear violation of any “customary” business agreement, whether written or verbal. The commercials created were clearly acceptable for the purpose for which they were created, and no one does work that is acceptable enough for its intended use, but not good enough for payment.
In addition, the friend and former general manager would clearly support the filmmaker’s version regarding the original verbal agreement. So, it would be difficult if not impossible for the car dealership to dispute the claim.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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In actuality (and here’s a couple of years’ worth of Tort and Contract Law coming back after 20+ years to haunt me)… all a contract needs to be a legal valid and binding contract are two things: 1) an “offer,” and 2) “acceptance.”
If I tell Bob that I’m willing to sell him my old klunker used truck for $1000, and he says “I’ll take it,” we then have a binding contract. I can no longer say “Hmmm, now that I think about it, it’s really worth $1500,” or “Actually, I’ve changed my mind, I want to keep it,” because we already have an “offer” and an “acceptance.” It is a contract.
A verbal/handshake contract is absolutely totally without-a-doubt 100% completely legal and binding… just as if they were written in granite.
Courts find handshake agreements valid everyday.
HOWEVER…
Of course in court the difficulty comes in proving the terms of the handshake agreement. And barring the inclusion of witnesses to the agreement, it easily escalates into an unprovable “he said / she said” affair.
Get it in writing. Witnesses aren’t a bad idea either.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd at Fantastic Plastic] “Courts find handshake agreements valid everyday.
HOWEVER…
Of course in court the difficulty comes in proving the terms of the handshake agreement. And barring the inclusion of witnesses to the agreement, it easily escalates into an unprovable “he said / she said” affair.
Get it in writing. Witnesses aren’t a bad idea either.”
Yes!!! Everything Todd says is right on the money…
BTW, watching Judge Judy is a very good primer for the realities of small claims court. As her show points out in every episode, it certainly helps to have right on your side, but documentation and credible “live” witnesses are really the keys to victory. Judges are not nearly as impressed with affidavits or written testimony. If a credible live human being accompanies you to court and is willing to back up your version of events, that is very meaningful to most judges. If you have two or three live human beings so much the better. If your opponent is all alone you will win the vast majority of cases.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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