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Trouble with 720 23.98 Black Magic transmit, and new sequences created from clips
Hi Cow Gang,
So, I’m curious to see if anyone has any experience with this. I actually have two issues that I would like to resolve. I have recently moved over to a new workstation. I’m working on a 12 core, 64GB ram, GTX 570 2.5gb, Black Magic Extreme 3d, Red Rocket Card. I’ve recently moved over to an Adobe workflow, which I start on my old machine, which was a quad core with 8 gb ram, Kona 3, ATI 4870.
Now that I got all that out of the way, I can describe my issues. I have a feature that I have been working on for some time that currently sits with an almost completed rough cut using prores proxy 720 23.98 files. Project was shot with RED One, and the edit was started on FCP. I brought over one of my sequences of a scene to start playing around with conforming over to an r3d workflow. Once I started playing around with these files, I noticed two things. One, I was not able to output to my external monitor through my BM card. Two, I was always getting yellow render bars above my prores footage, even if I created a sequence from one of my clips.
This was really annoying for a couple of days. I was on the phone with Black Magic, Adobe, etc, and we couldn’t figure it out. Finally, I realized that because the footage is 23.98, black magic doesn’t like that format, and won’t transmit. In FCP, I would simply select a 720 59.94 output mode for my KONA 3, and all everything would be happy. It seems as though the BM card automatically selects what output it needs based on the footage. Apparently, the ability to playback a 23.98 sequence through 59.94 is only available on Windows machines. I’m sorry, but this absolutely blows my head out. Why would they only offer this on a Windows machine. Can anyone offer some advice as to what format I should be transcoding out of Redcine X Pro for use with an offline edit. I exported a 59.94 file, and all that did was play my video faster.
Anyway, on to my next issue. If take one of these 720 23.98 clips, and try to create a sequence from that clip, I get a yellow render bar above my footage. On my old machine, I was able to do the same thing, and not be issued a yellow render bar. I noticed that there were differences in the Video Preview section of the sequence settings. On my old machine, the preview file format is 1280x720p23.98 Custom, and the Codec is Apple ProRes 422 Proxy. This makes total sense in my head, because that’s exactly what the files are that the sequence was created from. On my new machine, both of those drop down menus are greyed out, and the format is set to I-Frame only MPEG, and I can’t change these settings.
Through a process of trial and error, I found that if I install the Kona drivers on my new machine, I am able to create new sequence from one of these files, and I no longer get a yellow render bar.
On both machines, the process of creating a new sequence from a clip starts the beach ball of death for a while before the sequence is created. Not sure why this is such a processor intensive process. Before I installed the Kona drivers, this would happen almost immediately.
So, to recap, here are the two things I would like to figure out. What is the best way to transcode clips 720 clips out of Redcine X that are broadcast friendly, i.e., 59.94, and retain the 24 fps look. Also, why are the kona drivers necessary for me to create a sequence that doesn’t need some sort of rendering in Premiere.
Any help anyone would be able to offer would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Dave
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6 Replies
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Is there a specific reason you are transcoding to 720/23.976P? That is a bit of an oddball format, and some hardware and software will not be able to deal with it. I would work at 1080/23.976P, which should have far fewer issues.
Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City -
The 720 signal formats are either 50fps or 60fps and at least the Blackmagic Ultrastudio 3D will not monitor if it’s a “non standard” 720-framerate combo.
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At the time I was transcoding these files, I was trying to do what I could to save on file size. I was encoding an entire feature, so I thought it was a good idea. Also, at the time I was working with a Kona card, which allowed me to display 23.98 footage through a 59.94 output setting.
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Do any of you have experience with Redcine-X Pro? Do you know of a way to output material at 720 59.94, even if it was captured at 4k 23.98, and have it look retain the look of 24fps?
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I would not call Yellow a “render bar” since it does NOT need to render, only Red bars do. Please see Adobe’s explanation of colors – https://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2011/02/red-yellow-and-green-render-bars.html
Thanks
Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers -
HMMMMM…. If you are outputting 59.94, you’re not going to get a 24p look… UNLESS>>>>>>
Use After effects or another editor of similar gen, and find twixtor or red giant plugs that will recode the frame rate to a 24p if you want that look.OR
If you want a more 24p motion, you could apply a motion effect that blurs the edges, smooths out tones, and drops some noise. Plugins can do this, but you’re better off creating an effect by hand, and applying it to every frame.
For this type of filter, I’m envisioning the adjustment in photoshop, but I haven’t worked out the transition to AE just yet…
open the frame in photoshop, dupe background to layer 1, invert layer 1>convert to smart object>set to color dodge or linear dodge, whichever gets you most white>gaussian blur until edges come out, select all layers and use snapshot to get a compilation of them as layer 2, turn off layer 1, black and white layer 2, then flatten, and keep as layer 2, burn edges to a stronger black, gently, but doge mid tones and highlights lightly in other areas (5-10 percent) and set layer 2 to Multiply blend while making sure that background turns on. Duplicate layer 2 to layer 3, apply a blur to layer 3, set to luminance, and adjust opacities to tastes. Flatten, and repeat for each frame.
This creates more transition area around major edges and in shadows, but blurs the luminance so that you get a smoother grain. This drops the pixelation down, and has a smoother “Feel” like film. If you apply a grain filter to this, first drop noise a little with the photoshop noise reduction. This will give your farm a “Film” look. Do this to every frame and you’re all set. Your motion should have a film look, your color should too.If I could apply an edge detection in AE and dial it in, to darken then blur the transition areas, then have AE smooth the luminance and color noise, and apply grain per frame, I’d walk you through it. But my AE knowledge is a lacking along these lines. I know how to create comps and apply plugs\filters, but I’m not as knowledgeable on which filters are available to AE out of the box. I’m more familiar with photoshop, using TWIXTOR to adjust time\frame rates, and outputting\editing through premiere and AME.
If you can find a filter for a Film look, you should be able to tweak the settings to taste and just run with that.
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