Tri-Level Sync

[David Battistella]

I have done it to an F-500 deck without tri-level sync. The deck locks to the incoming HDSDI video source which the KONA supplies.

[Bob Zelin]

I will likely us a Sony JH-3 for digitizing and output to Sony HDW-2000.

Now for the question. Do I need tri-level sync to be able to digitize, output and monitor properly.

REPLY – If I answer your question, when do I get my beer? If you shoot at 59.94 on your HD Cam (29.97 frame rate), there will be no problems with either VTR, and your AJA Kona 2, and you can use your standard cheapo NTSC color black generator (or PAL). If you shoot at 23.98, and you PLAY BACK on a Sony JH-3, or a Sony HDW-F500 with the pulldown option (the JH-3 comes standard with this) – you will have the VTR do the 2:3:3:2 pulldown, and you will have no problems, because even though you shot in 23.98, you are editing at 59.94, and you can use your standard cheapo NTSC black generator. (So far, the answer to your question is that YOU DO NOT need a tri level sync generator). The same answer applies to Panasonic HD VTR’s that come with the 2:3:3:2 pulldown feature as standard (like the HD1200A).

NOW, if you use a mid price Sony HD recorder, like the HDW-M2000/1, or the S280, etc., THESE VTRS DO NOT offer the 2:3:3:2 pulldown as an option, so you must work at 23.98 frame rate, and you will have to rely on something to do the conversion for you. I had AJA explain to me how to output at normal frame rate without buying anything else, but with these mid level recorders from Sony, you will absolutely have to purchase a tri level sync generator, or you can simply operate in FREE RUN (and disconnect all reference from the Sony HDW-M2000/1, and let the blue STOP light flash – but it is still at 23.98, and you will have a hell of a time making a VHS or Digi Beta dub.

THIS IS WHAT I DID – and I know that AJA has a way of not doing it, but
this works. Cobalt Digital makes the 8021 HD converter. You simply take the HD output of the HDW-M2000/1 playing back at 23.98, pass it thru this $3000 converter (cheaper than the tri level sync generator), and it adds the 2:3:3:2 pulldown to the HD signal, so you can input to the Kona 2 (or AVID Adrenaline HD, or anything else) at a normal 59.94 framerate, and you don’t have to deal with any of these frame rate conversion nightmares. As I said, perhaps AJA will contribute here on what they can do without buying anything, but if you INSIST on using the HDW-M2000/1, the Cobalt 8021 will make your problems go away, without buying a tri level sync generator.

Let me add one more variation to this. If you PLAYBACK AND DIGITIZE with the JH-3 (using it’s native 2:3:3:2 pulldown), and now you have a 59.94 HD project, you can simply record back to the HDW-M2000/1 at 59.94, with your cheapo NTSC black generator, and have no problems. The problem is when you ONLY have the HDW-M2000/1 for PLAYBACK AND RECORD, and you have 23.98 tapes, and you have no way of adding in the 2:3 pulldown. That is where you get screwed.

As a final note, the only reason to really have a tri level sync generator is if you want to create a 23.98 MASTER TAPE on the HDW-M2000/1, and then you MUST genlock the entire system to a 23.98 house reference. For most of us in TV Land, all we want to do is create a 59.94 (29.97) master, so we can make a dub to Digi Beta, and in this case, all you need is a cheapo black generator.

Remember, in a pinch, you can simply run with NO REFERENCE SIGNAL, and switch the Kona reference to Free Run, and it will work to.

My advice (unless you need a 23.98 master) – don’t buy a Tri Level sync gen.

Bob Zelin
(sorry this was so long).

[David Battistella]

Bob,

This response is an excellent resource and well worth the price of a beer. 🙂 If we ever meet in person I will buy you that beer! My only question is this. What if you are running the F-500 Deck which records and plays back in both 59.94 and 23.98? Does the tri-level sync only apply to the HDW-M2000/1 deck?

What about the SR?

Thanks for this wealth of info.

David

[Bob Zelin]

The HDW-F500 can be set to reference to 23.98 or 59.94.

When you get this expensive VTR, you also purchase this –

HKDV507D HD 3:2 Pull Down Board w/dual reference $11,250.00

This board will allow you to play back a 23.98 tape in the HDW-F500, and have it
spit out at 59.94, so you can capture into the Kona 2 at a normal frame rate (and lock everyone to standard house black, and not tri level).

You certainly can set the menus on the F500 to 23.98, and then lock the VTR and Kona 2 to Tri Level Sync (from Evertz, Astro Systems, etc.) – buy why would you want to do this?

Tri Level sync applies to ALL products that operate at 23.98, 24, or any “non standard” frame rate. Products like the Evertz 7750 and Astro Systems have knobs and/or switches that let you select the frame rate you want. It’s not JUST for the HDW-M2000/1, it’s for ANY VTR or edit controller that you want to operate at these frame rates. I am trying to get you to AVOID these issues.

Of course if you are working for George Lucas, and have every intention of finishing at 23.98 or 24, and will do a 24p theatrical release, then you MUST reference to tri level sync – but the odds are, that you are not doing this – you are going to finish for TV, and that is 59.94 (29.97). Make it easy on yourself – avoid the mid priced
Sony VTR’s.

As for the SR series deck – I live in Florida – I will NEVER see this VTR, and my clients will NEVER use 4:4:4. We are poor here – it’s a miracle that we are doing HD in the first place !!!!

Bob Zelin

[Graham]

Bob:

Thanks so much for your informative reply. It is most helpful. I have spent a lot of time getting bits of info here and there…but nothing concise.

If I am down your way I would gladly buy you a beer or three!! If you should be in Calgary, Alberta, Canada I will buy you some real beer! It is a great place to visit!