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Transcode Animation codec to ProRes HQ thru Compressor – Not Broadcast Safe
Hello,
I’m outputting a 35 sec animation as final delivery from FCP6. The file I’m using is an Animation Codec 1080i created in AE CS4 through Compressor to ProRes 422 HQ 1080i. In FCP in the Animation sequence, my scopes tell me that in two places the Chroma levels (Red) are peaking above 100, about 101 or 102%. To correct this, I used the Broadcast Safe filter to clamp the colors a little.
However, when I bring the resulting ProRes QT back into FCP to monitor under the scopes, it didn’t change a thing. It seems the filter wasn’t “carried over” through Compressor? I’ve done several tests with these results:
1) Illegal Gamma ProRes with Broadcast Safe filter again, output using Quicktime Movie, and yes, the filter worked and clamped the Reds (but softened the contrast and looks a little muddy in comparison to original ProRes). I used QT Movie because I wanted same exact settings w/out compression, but not sure if this route actually lessens transcoding 2x.
2) Same as above, except through Quicktime Conversion – no changeI unfortunately do not have access to an HD broadcast monitor, nor external scopes (as oppose to internal application scopes). We would like to avoid transcoding the ProRes file again, because it looks washed out. We are trying to avoid going back to AE to color correct there, because the output is overnight, and time is short. We will if we have to, but I’ve been told adding a filter to the animation sequence in FCP, transcoding to ProRes, should do the trick, but it’s not working.
On a side note, in AE the project was rendered and outputted with a broadcast safe plugin from there to the animation codec being used in FCP.
Any ideas why Compressor is not carrying over the Broadcast Safe filter on the Animation Sequence? It could simply be that I don’t know enough about the Animation Codec, maybe I’m missing a step, or option to check, etc. My settings in Compressor for color is default for encoder, which is the ProRes 422 HQ. Everything else in both Compressor and FCP looks as it should.
Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
Mac 2.66 GHz Quad Intel Xeon
OSX 10.6 something
FCP 6.0.5
AE 7
Quicktime Pro 7.6
4GB RAM
Plenty of storage
Panasonic AG-DVX100A -
10 Replies
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Updated my signature with system specs see below
Mac 2.66 GHz Quad Intel Xeon
OSX 10.5.8
FCP 6.0.6
AE CS4
Quicktime Pro 7.6.4
4GB RAM
Plenty of storage
Panasonic Lumix GH1, Panasonic HVX200A -
Broadcast safe filter isn’t always safe after render. This bug has been noted for many years.
There are various formulas to fix this but I use the RGB limiter after a 3 way CC.
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[Joseph Hung] ” in two places the Chroma levels (Red) are peaking above 100, about 101 or 102%. To correct this”
Hi Joseph,
You need to look at the Chroma in the Vectorscope.
The parade will give you the RGB values, but that’s not the Chroma.
You need that all the chroma keeps inside of the line that connect the six reference boxes.
About the illegal RGB values, you need to check the “RGB limiting” option in the “Broadcast Safe” filter.
Or better, use the “RGB Limit” filter that is in the Color Correction filters folder.
This is one is a good filter.
rafael -
[Joseph Hung] “To correct this, I used the Broadcast Safe filter to clamp the colors a little. “
Broadcast Safe does not clamp the chroma levels, at least not well at all. To bring down chroma levels you need to use the Color Corrector Filter and then use Broadcast Safe.
And I would convert your Animation to ProRes BEFORE taking it into FCP so FCP is the last software to touch your product, not Compressor if you want Broadcast Safe.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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[walter biscardi] “And I would convert your Animation to ProRes BEFORE taking it into FCP so FCP is the last software to touch your product, not Compressor if you want Broadcast Safe”
I agree with Walter.
If you export from AE as Prores, the best.
You will also retain more quality if you have rendered in 16 or 32b.
Animation is only 8b.
And If you are exporting with Alpha is a great opportunity to try the Prores 444.
rafael -
Thanks for the responses!
That is very interesting. I have been using the waveform, vectorscope and the parade scopes through this whole process, and monitored every change. When I dropped the Broadcast filter on it (with RGB Limiter checked on), I saw the change in all three scopes, and everything was legal. Still unsure as to why Compressor or Quicktime Conversion won’t carry over the filter rendered onto an Animation codec quicktime…I mean, I can see what it did to the animation codec in the scopes right there! I also used the 3 way CC, as well as RGB Limiter, it still didn’t affect the final ProRes transcode.
I have been reading that the animation codec is being slowly fazed out by editors, that it’s high quality codec is not that manageable in the face of comparable high quality compressed codecs, such as ProRes 444…In terms of the workflow, that is duly noted. I was told by the editor that I was delivering to, to output animation from AE and do the transcode to ProRes through FCP/Compressor. Which is what I did, and didn’t work. I guess exporting a ProRes instead of Animation would be easier to work with in FCP.
But doesn’t that mean I am compressing the file in AE, then if I need to color correct again (due to the color space differences) I would be transcoding a compressed file again? Also, would it be better then, to output an Uncompressed 10 bit file from AE, then transcode to ProRes? Just trying to preserve the utmost best quality with less transcode steps…
Your expertise is much appreciated!
Thanks,Mac 2.66 GHz Quad Intel Xeon
OSX 10.5.8
FCP 6.0.6
AE CS4
Quicktime Pro 7.6.4
4GB RAM
Plenty of storage
Panasonic Lumix GH1, Panasonic HVX200A -
Something to note is that when you get Animation files form AE, the gamma is usually FUBAR, at least in my office, so something that may help is to change how FCP is interpreting the Gamma of RGB files, under User Settings, Editing Tab lower left corner. If you change that to 2.22, then the washed out look you are referring to should not be present. It may even lower your levels a smidge because it is effectively increasing your contrast a bit and darkening.
Also, any reading you are getting off of the CC of Broadcast safe filters, before rendering the clip are basically inaccurate. You need render the clip before looking at your scopes.
You’re also, if I’m not mistaken, changing color space in your export (from Animation [RGB] to Pro Res [YUV]), so certain values are just going to change. When applying the filters is you sequence set to you Animation codec settings or the files destination setting? If the sequence is set to your final file type, then you should get a better idea of what you will get.
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Ah very good point. No my sequence setting is set to the animation codec. I figured since it was animation, then an animation sequence, and I would be transcoding to ProRes, so there would be no need to deal with an animation codec in a ProRes sequence. You could be right there.
I was afraid that it would be the differences in color spaces, going from animation to prores, and a possible change in the RGB limits. So you could be correct. My observations with the scopes have always been after rendering, so I don’t think that was the problem.
Hmm, still stumped on why filters aren’t being carried over in the export. Ah well, we ended up transcoding the ProRes again with slight CC, and all is good. There was a difference in the quality, but it was acceptable with a slight contrast boost, which was still within broadcast levels. Delivered and passed QC.
After further research, the new ProRes 444 is pretty right on, and that it supports both RGB and YUV and an alpha channel. More reasons to get FCP 7 into the workflow soon.
Goodbye Animation Codec!
Thanks everyone for your experience and patience in this query…Mac 2.66 GHz Quad Intel Xeon
OSX 10.5.8
FCP 6.0.6
AE CS4
Quicktime Pro 7.6.4
4GB RAM
Plenty of storage
Panasonic Lumix GH1, Panasonic HVX200A -
Unless you needed an alpha channel, why not just export ProRes straight from AE, no transcoding.
Also dropping the animation codec into a ProRes timeline might have worked better. I have not had problems rendering animation codec in a ProRes timeline and having legal levels change. Perhaps the Animation sequence was the problem.
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[Joseph Hung] “But doesn’t that mean I am compressing the file in AE, then if I need to color correct again (due to the color space differences) I would be transcoding a compressed file again”
If you export Prores from AE you won’t have nothing to correct in FC.
AE renders in RGB and compress to YUV without problems. Don’t let Fc to manage the color space change when you can do it in AE.
rafael
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