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To Convert or Not to Convert – Ingesting Mixed Frame Rates
I’m setting up a documentary where the footage is a mix of mostly 23.98 fps, which I believe is what the final product will be (waiting on confirmation), a good amount of 29.97 and a little bit of 59.94.
I don’t usually work with mixed frame rates but for a couple shots here and there and want to make sure I use the best work flow for a smooth finish.
I have set up a 23.98 project and would like to know if the best way to handle this is to transcode everything keeping the original frame rate. I tested one 29.97 clip and when comparing it to the linked media, the one where I kept the original frame rate keeps the timecode the same as the original clip, where as the one that I converted to 23.98 is a couple frames off from it.
I have only found old posts from 2015 and earlier in my search on the world wide web and I suspect things have changed since then. Also, I’ve never used anything later than 2018.xx.xx up to this point and even that’s been a while, but I don’t remember having the option to keep the original frame rate, but again, I don’t usually work with different fps.
So is it fine to transcode all my media at the original frame rate without converting to the project frame rate? It looks better in the edit timeline and keeps the original timecode so it seems that’s the way to go unless it’s going to cause any issues in the online.
Thanks for any input!
EDIT TO ADD:
I’ve just been playing around and see that if I leave the clips transcoded in their original frame rate and not converting them to the project frame rate I cannot do any motion effect on them. So if I am not missing anything and a way to do this, I supposed I should convert to the project frame rate in order to be able to change the speed of clips, correct?
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6 Replies
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Hey Nina,
Are you finishing the project on AVID, or will ot go to a third party?
When it comes to framerates, there can only be the one that you deliver the final master with.
Obviously from that, you may be doing down, up or cross converts depending on the delivery specs.If the amount of footage that you are dealing with is manageble and you have the space for it, it may be worth doing fullres converts of source footage to the master TC format. Then do proxies from that if you need the space.
In other words, if you transcode in full media size, you should be fine. But if you are doing proxies that are not matching, then you’ll need to rethink the process.
Atb
Mads
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Thanks for the reply!
It will be going to an online editor, who or where that will be is yet to be determined.
I do know that they want the doc to be unconventional so I’m leaning towards converting to the project frame rate so that motion effects can be created. Then the online editor would just have to make sure they are matching the cuts on any of the converted frame rate media.
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I’ve thought about it some more and I think I’m just going to keep the original frame rate and then if it needs a motion effect I can just create a clip that has it converted.
This is pending doing an EDL/AFF test to make sure the correct info shows up for the online editor.
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Hey Nina,
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, as it sounds like the production might need to get the funding for completion, based on your amazing edit.
My advice is to make sure that the production understands that even if it’s “unconventional”, it still needs to be in a format where the finished documentary can be enjoyed.
Don’t know if it is stepping on your toes, but it might be worth suggesting the production hire (or nominate) a Post Production Supervisor to start managing the process and make sure that each “department” knows what they are working with and towards.Depending on how you decide to work with the mix of frame-rates, and given that no notes are carried over to the sound edit/mix, then you might end up with some interesting out of sync dialogue.
Not trying to scare you here, as you sound like you’ve got a very good grip on the edit. But as I am sure that you have experienced, that as soon as you’ve left the room and moved on, someone will do their best to complicate the next stage.
Good news is that you are on AVID, and that from its infancy, was created for high-end editing for handing over to high-end finishing team.
Keep Going – you are doing well.
Atb
Mads -
I don’t think it’s going to be too crazy in the edit, but I wanted to ensure that there weren’t problems down the road, as you’ve mentioned.
I did just learn that I can ingest it at the original frame rate and then if we want to put a motion effect on it ‘promote’ the clip from the ‘promote’ button within the motion effect. So I think that will work. The timecode remains correct with the picture and speed of the clip can be changed. Interesting also, is that you can then put the clip at 100% and it will play at the proper speed for its native frame rate.
I am going to confirm that an EDL/AFF is good with this method.
It’s weird for me right now to deal with this issue at the same time I’m using the newer version of Avid since no one wanted to leave 2018.xx.xx earlier. So I’m still learning all the changes to the software as I figure this situation out.
I appreciate your input! Thanks for that.
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That is good news!
And at least you can get on with the actual job.
Good idea to export EDL/AAF to see what happens, maybe send it to Davinci or similar?
Admittedly, I have got the latest version of AVID MC Ultimate, just need a bigger project to take it for a test run on.
Still remember the days when AVID off-line started from about £50K for a suite, where as now it is close to £250 for an annual licence that will run on most reasonable specced computers…
Have Fun, and don’t forget to announce it here on the COW when your work gets published.
Atb
Mads
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