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Timecode Errors in EDL
Hi all,
Here’s what happened.
Editor #1 cut a movie.
Editor #2 was brought in to do the trailer.Editor #1 gave Editor #2 six clips.
They were Quicktime Reference movies made of the entire feature.
Editor #2 imported them to FCP, and then cut the trailer using just those clips.The problem is, when he printed an EDL, almost every clip in his sequence got a “no reel” or “no timecode track” error message.
So they brought me (assistant editor) in to try to clean things up.
The reel thing I can fix, but I’m totally stumped on this timecode thing.The clips did have a timecode burn-in, so I tried to create an auxiliary timecode track.
However, we seem to be getting a drift of between 2 and 15 frames, both at the beginning and end of the clip. I’m trying to see if this may have been a drop frame vs. non drop frame issue, but I’m a little confused – doesn’t counting just happen?I’m also trying to see if there’s a way to export the clip, apply a Pro Res codec to generate timecode, and then bring it back in to FCP, but that doesn’t seem to be working either.
I’m lost.
Is there a way to generate a timecode track for these clips?
A way that can then be passed on to the online editors – who are in Canada.
Or do we need to go back and recapture those clips, with timecode?
Am I overthinking this?
Is there an easier solution, or something else I should be looking for?
Any help would be MUCH appreciated.Thanks,
Kim -
8 Replies
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If they have BITC park on the first frame and modify>timecode
If there are colons in the BITC it’s non drop if there are semicolons or a comma it’s drop framecounting just happens in frames, but counting drops frames in drop frame so TC counter and the time on a normal clock agree.
non drop frame counts every frameDoug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN -
Doug’s right on the money. Sounds like a Non-drop vs. drop TC problem.
In my humble opinion: at this stage, it will probably take you less time to eye match the edit, especially since the edits are within 2-15 frames of where they need to be. Then once you’ve found the clips and made everything match up, send out a fresh EDL from the clips FROM THE MOVIE, not the trailer.
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This is going to be an ongoing nightmare for all of us. EDLs need reel and timecode info that so often doesn’t happen with file based project.
The industry needs to acknowledge that we need tools that give us EDL like manipulation ability but can deal with non tape based sources.
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for that.
But there’s a problem (of course…)It looks like Editor #1 burned in non drop-frame BITC, but the clips were actually drop-frame. If that’s the case, there’s no way to match up the timecode, is there?
Kim
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Well Kimberly this is one of those where whatever can go wrong will, and most of that is from folks not paying attention, causing grief for whoever follows them, in this case you.
1. is there anyway to get editor #1s project or sequence he used to generate the BITC?
Obviously it would be helpful to have the media to generate new BITC2. Can you do the same for editor #2? Get his project or sequence.
Having the info will help determining the course of action.
having #1 is ideal. duplicate the sequence(s) and fix the error, generate the appropriate BITC and compare to #2. You can edit an EDL in a text editor, been there done that. It’s not fun it takes a lot of concentration and you’ve got to make notes for yourself along the way.
_____________________________________________________________________If not and depending on what you are doing, sounds like a conform of some sort, add handles to the appropriate length and recapture and rebuild. Aaron sussed this out. at least the decisions have been made all you need to do is eyematch, which depending on how many takes for each scene there were could also be some hell
If you could establish with certainty the first frame of each clips TC, a TC calculator could give you the numbers by converting non drop to drop based on duration, but that’s a painful ride
Best of luck.
Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN -
I agree that right now the most reasonable option is probably to recapture with appropriate handles to cover the drift and then to eye the cuts and go from there. In my experience, it is a rare case when I receive and EDL in which someone hasn’t mangled the TC track by rendering to different frame rates or transcoding and losing the source TC track (and other needed information) in their “custom exported” reference files — I’ve seen the Drop/Non-drop issue creeping in as well. For now it’s just one of those deals; until people understand the importance of EDL information I suppose it probably will be.
Good luck
Josh
Digital Media, Thought Equity Motion
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Just thought of one more thing I’ve done that’s helped me occasionally: If you’ve got BITC, using the semi-colon/colon as an indicator for DF/NDF, take each of your reference cuts and set them in their own sequence. Use the sequence settings and set them properly as DF/NDF and change the start TC to match the BITC. You can then reassemble the main edit sequence with the nested sequence cuts and export a new EDL. In the past that has helped me recover the lost TC reads and errors in the edit, and allowed me to reconnect back the original media more easily.
Josh
Digital Media, Thought Equity Motion
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Asher Hershtik
Founder & CTO
Vidyatel Ltd
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