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Timebase mystery
We just finished field production on three videos, shot on DVC-PRO with an HDX900. We shot on Firestore (organized as P2) and imported to Final Cut via Log & Transfer.
All shots on the first two productions show up, as planned and expected, with a timebase of 59.94. But all shots on the third production show up in Final Cut with a timebase of 29.97. Very strange because we used the same settings and (as far as I recall) same workflow for importing the material in each case.
The HDX900 can be configured to shoot 29.97 but it takes a series of steps to do that; it’s not something you would do inadvertently and the DP never went into that menu on the camera.
One added bit of information: when the camera was generating bars during the third shoot, those shots show up in FCP as 59.94 (as bars from that camera always do). But all of the rest of the shots on that shoot are 29.97.
We can’t find anyone who can explain this. Are there any geniuses here who CAN? I want to test the tapes that we were shooting to see if they show the same results but I’m not yet able to do that. (We thought maybe this could be a Firestore issue but we used two Firestores on all the shoots. Both produced 59.94 on the first two and 29.97 on the third. )
Edit system is latest FCP and QT. Kona 3. Octocore.
Cheers,
Ron
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11 Replies
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What were you shooting, 720p60 or 720p30? both will record to the tape and firestore as 59.94 but the 30p will have each frame recorded twice. These duplicate frames can be removed on record to the Firestore (PN setting) or on ingest into FCP.
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Hi Michael,
Thanks for taking the time for this. We shot everything in 720p 30. I’m not a camera guy but I believe the HVX900 can’t shoot 720p 60.
So from what you’re saying it does sound like this could be either a Firestore setting or an FCP ingest setting. The truth is that we don’t recall changing our settings or workflow at any time in the project but mistakes are always possible.
After reading your post I checked one of the Firestores, which still holds data from the third shoot and it is set at regular P2, not PN. So I don’t think that’s the issue. But maybe I did something unusual when I brought the data into FCP. What would the setting be in FCP that would ingest our data as 29.97? (Remembering that everything was “log-and-transfered” at the same time. AND that bars shots are showing up as 59.94; all the other shots are 29.97.)
Thanks again.
Ron
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Look in the Log and Transfer Preferences and un-click the Remove Duplicate Frames and try to transfer the 29.97 clips and see if that fixes it.
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I don’t know of preferences that are particularly for Log & Transfer. But if you mean the Capture Presets inside Audio-Video Settings… I am using the standard FCP DVC Pro-720p60 template setting with the “Remove…duplicate frames” box unchecked.
I appreciate your thoughts about this, though. Are we talking about the same preferences setting?
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The preferences are right there at the top of the log and transfer window. Often overlooked or glanced at and accidentally changed. Stupid things default to removing pulldown. But that’s another complaint.
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Yeap, the capture presets have no bearing on transfers, why you may ask, well you are not capturing, you are transferring.
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Well, Michael, you have solved the mystery. Thank you. And thanks to Bret for instructions on finding the inscrutably small and hidden preferences settings for “L&T.”
The “remove duplicate frames” box was, indeed, checked. And unchecking it did, indeed, solve the 29.97 issue. So end of that story.
Just for sake of discussion, I still don’t understand these two things:
1. Since I had never before made any adjustments to the Log & Transfer preferences — had never even opened it as far as I know unless I was sleepwalking one night — how could they have gotten changed? Is there some other function in FCP that affects those settings?
2. I still wonder why all the shots except bars transferred as 29.97, while the bars transferred as 59.94 — even with the “remove duplicate frames” box checked.No need to carry on this string any longer, seeking answers to those two, though. Just curious.
And thanks again.
— Ron
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Bars are generated in camera not shot like footage
Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN -
Hi Doug,
Yes, I do understand that. I just don’t see how that answers my question… why the bars that were recorded by the Firestore came into FCP as 59.98 and the video/shots from Firestore came in as 29.97. It’s just a technical thing and doesn’t really affect my project anymore. I was just hoping to understand what the equipment is doing.Cheers,
Ron
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[Ron Craig] “Yes, I do understand that. I just don’t see how that answers my question… why the bars that were recorded by the Firestore came into FCP as 59.98 and the video/shots from Firestore came in as 29.97”
but it does answer the question Ron.
on the panasonic cameras bars are generated at the SMPTE base being shot. So if you were shooting 720 no matter if it was at 24, 30. or 60fps the bars will generate at the SMPTE spec for baseband video @ 59.94 (60p).
Since you had set your camera to be a 29.97 that is the frame rate that FCP interpreted as being correct. This has messed with people for awhile now, since if you capture from tape including bars – FCP is not smart enough to remove the pulldown for the rest of the tape.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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