time code generator

[Brian Reynolds]

Timecode and Gunlock are 2 TOTALLY different things…..

Timecode is a ‘number stamp’ on each frame of media (just like the old 35mm film) the numbers are ‘normally’ 24hr clock time in hrs / minutes /seconds / frames different shoots often use different frame rates so ALL the units being used should be set at the SAME frame rate.

Normally one device is regarded as the ‘standard’ and the others should be jambed to that unit occasionally, The audio recorder is normally used as cameras will change when many camera options are used like slowmo.
There are small devices like ‘Lockit’ boxes or ‘Tentacle’ boxes are jammed to the ‘standard’ and then attached to the cameras to supply a continuous feed of code.
So now you will have the ‘same set of numbers’ on each set of media all you have to do is match them on the time line of the editing.

Timecode is an Identification system NOT a locking system.

Genlock IS a locking system that is used when signals from multiple cameras are switched ‘LIVE’ just like a TV studio or Outside Broadcast Production through a switcher. Genlock is there to stop a frame roll on each camera video change.
So a camera will use 2 cables attached, the first one is the signal from the camera to the switcher and the other is a cable that times / aligns the control signal. (and yes those cables should be the same length)
There are video switchers made that don’t need Genlock and no need for a return to camera cable, this switchers have a frame store on each video input and will allow input from ‘NON sync’ sources.

Ok my descriptions of both Timecode and Genlock are of a basic nature as a general overview, and should be treated as such.

‘Celebrating 40 years of Broadcasting Audio….
Started with Magnetic stripe and Sprocket holes to now Gigabytes and Touch Screen Mixing Consoles’……

[Richard Crowley]

What does “multi-cam shoot” mean here? Are you doing on-the-fly, real-time switching between the cameras (as for a live broadcast event or a “live-to-tape” program episode)? Or are you shooting a bunch of cameras in “iso” (where the video from each camera is recorded separately (ISOlated), and then all the camera clips are edited together after-the-fact in post-production processing?

Genlock is more important for live-switching where the cameras must all be in lock-step with each other so that you can switch between them seamlessly. OTOH, timecode is more important for multi-camera, iso production because then the editor knows how all the camera clips correlate with each other.

Some cameras are known to hold their time-sync better than others. Some productions can “jam-sync” each camera to the reference once in the morning and they are good for the rest of the day. Many productions will jam-sync at the start of the day, and then again at the lunch-break (and supper-break for long days). Some makes/models of cameras are notorious for having poor internal clocks and must be synced more often.

This is rather a high-end question and there are many discussions about your very question (and the kind of high-end cameras you are asking about) over on the JWsoundGroup web forum. For example: https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/28186-sound-devices-633-mixerrecorder-timecode-drift/

If you are hiring a professional sound mixer and/or cinematographer, they likely already know the gear and how to sync it together. If you are DIY, you might want to hire a professional for your first few sessions and learn how to use your gear.

———————————————————————————
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Brian and Richard,
I will not be using a switcher, all the cameras would record from different angles. I will be shooting with 2 or 3 camcorders and recording audio using the sound devices 633 mixer/recorder.
I would record scratch audio on the camcorders and the mikes would be used with the mixer/recorder.
In post the media from the camcorders would be edited as a multicam with the audio from the mixer being the audio only track. (though its not called a track in FCP X).

I asked a local pro audio store what they recommended and they came up with this: Tascam CG-2000 – Video Sync/Master Clock Generator.

Would do you think?

Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic HPX250P, FCP X 10.3, teach video production in L.A.

[Richard Crowley]

If you want advice on pro sync gear, ask a vendor who specializes in that kind of equipment. Your “local local pro audio store” does not have the credibility of an industry expert like Trew Audio, et.al.

Furthermore, it is not clear that you need anything more. How do you know that simply jam-syncing each camera to your SD633 each morning won’t do the job simply and easily? Why do you think you need genlock? Why do you think you need wired timecode? People who produce prime-time TV shows with budgets of millions don’t find they need all that. You may be looking for a solution to a problem that you don’t have. Or at least you have not demonstrated a need for.

———————————————————————————
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.

[Craig Alan]

Well it was Trew Audio and all I wanted to do was sync the audio mixer and the two or three cameras. I asked a lot of people.
I was in a rush cause the application for funding is due and I’m going off the flu and side effects of the flu.

Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic HPX250P, FCP X 10.3, teach video production in L.A.

[Brian Reynolds]

The camera/s you have mentioned and the Audio recorder all have timecode generators in them…. Just pick one as the standard. Even if its wrong…. ALL the devices will be wrong in the same amount (causing no problem)
My suggestion is the audio recorder 633 and this will not change during the entire shoot where as the cameras may stop / start or do fancy camera stuff which may upset the TC stability. So use the 633 as the ‘Master clock’ and everything else MUST jamb to it.
You don’t need a constant feed the cameras, jambing twice a day should give much less than 1 frame error (per day) over the entire system.

Do tests …. several, to get your head around things, don’t just turn up on a job and try and work it out…..

‘Celebrating 40 years of Broadcasting Audio….
Started with Magnetic stripe and Sprocket holes to now Gigabytes and Touch Screen Mixing Consoles’……

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Brian, i need to get the proposal in yesterday so am under pressure. So what gear do I need to use the 633 to jam sync the cameras? Just interconnects? The two devices need to connected when your jamming and then can be disconnected? The 633 uses a 5 pin Lemo. So just get a 5 pin Lemo to SDI /BNC cable, a BNC barrel with two female BNCs and then a SDI cable to the cameras? and connect the two, one at a time? Then repeat as needed?

I was being told by the vendors that I needed a $1000 device for each piece being synced. Thus more expensive than the above plus needed to mount it to each camera.

Once I get the order I can learn too use it hopefully already owning the gear I need. The 633 does not have Genlock only timecode. Isn’t Genlock a more solid way to keep the cameras in sync with each other due to variations in the devices clocks? Now the 633 does not have this and therefore that might make the use of it meaningless? Or should I in addition genlock the two or three cameras so they remain firing at the same time? Or is it either or not both? I’ve been asking BHphoto, Samy’s, Trew Audio, and sound devices and here. What do I need, what do I need. Don’t even need to figure it out yet just get the order in.

Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic HPX250P, FCP X 10.3, teach video production in L.A.

[Brian Reynolds]

For the job described Genlock is not needed as you are NOT switching live………. Forget the word and every thing to do with Genlock with this job.

Time code is what you will be using…. All you should need is a cable of of less than 2m to join one camera and the 633 for 10 seconds…. then jamb sync the 2 devices, then use that same cable to jamb sync the second camera, then the third camera etc etc etc.

So TC out of the 633 to what ever the TC in (on each camera)

The cameras will then run on their OWN internal TC clocks…. Which will match the 633 as they have been jambed.
This should describe it better if your cameras have no TC or you want to use an external device to sync them.
https://www.tentaclesync.com/#hardware

[Brian Reynolds]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I_p4vc4e_Js

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[Craig Alan]

Thanks Brian. The 633 was not mentioned in the sound devices video but if I can jam sync each camera to the 633 that should do the trick. When folks talk about drifting within 24 hours is that continues shooting or just the amount of time since the cameras were synced. I also remember reading at some point that jam syncing from one of the cameras would be better than using the mixer but my guess is the 633 as you say a better choice since they use good components and because its the audio I am trying to keep in sync. Thanks for your help. I’ll forget the tascam and get a short cable 5pin lemon bnc for jam syncing. The length needs to be short or just all that is needed?

Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic HPX250P, FCP X 10.3, teach video production in L.A.