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The Open Timeline and Spatial Workflows — An Example
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[Walter Soyka] “I would think so, but my guess is that the debate is more about the role of the event browser (is it a DAM, a source monitor, or both?) than how to technically achieve stored in/out points.”
I would challenge that. 😉
[Walter Soyka] “But what about a project that uses multiple ranges within the same clip? “
How would you have that? You can’t have more than one selected range on a clip. It would just store the last range, just like FCP7.
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Marking favorites or similar allows you to have multiple range selections in a clip. Some other marking indicator, such as the orange tag used in iMovie, could be used on a clip to indicate a range that’s been edited into the active project. Switching projects would should a different selection range. This functionality is already in iMovie. No idea why it’s not in FCP.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Coming in 2011 “Complete Training for FCPX” from Class on Demand
“Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users” from Focal Press -
[Jeremy Garchow] “[Walter Soyka] “But what about a project that uses multiple ranges within the same clip? ”
How would you have that? You can’t have more than one selected range on a clip. It would just store the last range, just like FCP7.”
Walter, by range are you referring to multiple tagged regions?
I agree with Jeremy — why not have a special flavor or metadata for In/Out that persists in the UI until it’s redefined by the user?
The other thing that really bugs me in the browser is the way that if you click anywhere inside a selected range, the time indicator sticks, allowing you to set an In/Out point, but if you click anywhere outside the range, it selects the entire clip. That’s just sloppy. Command-A for “select all” makes much more sense as an explicit expression of user intent and has been the Mac OS standard since 1984.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
“unlike FCP7, which only stores the last set in/out per clip”
True that but one can always populate a bin with subclips and/or
record them onto selects sequences and both will hold all that log work.FCPX does that with keywords. Back to the object vs. text dichotomy?
Though if you take your selected clips and create a compound clip
from the event browser you could have a similar approach, apparently. -
“and has been the Mac OS standard since 1984”
Maybe because those standards won’t be there anymore in the near future?
Why would you perform a “select all” when you can say -Beam me up, Scotty? -
[David Lawrence] “I agree with Jeremy — why not have a special flavor or metadata for In/Out that persists in the UI until it’s redefined by the user?”
Right — but what does that mean when the event browser crosses projects? The last set of In/Out points I made on that clip in any project, or the last set of In/Out points I made for the current project?
[David Lawrence] “Walter, by range are you referring to multiple tagged regions?”
Imagine a single interview clip, from which you have cut several small pieces into the timeline. I’m suggesting that although remembering the last set of In/Out points is useful, with all the attention we’re paying to metadata now, remembering ALL of the sets of In/Out points associated with that clip for each project (and maybe even across projects) would also be useful.
For example, it might be really helpful to be able to expand a clip, showing and skimming all its in-use ranges as well as its unused ranges right in the browser.
I’m trying to think a little more like Jeremy here — not what we’re doing now, but what we could do if we were going to eliminate prior assumptions about how an NLE should work (although when cutting film, only showing unused footage on the source side is the default).
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “I’m trying to think a little more like Jeremy here — not what we’re doing now, but what we could do if we were going to eliminate prior assumptions about how an NLE should work (although when cutting film, only showing unused footage on the source side is the default).”
I’m with both of you on this, but also I think they serve different purposes — ranges behaving like sub-clips, while In/Out points indicating a specific range I’m only interested in right now. Maybe because this is a section I want to cut into my sequence or a section of my timeline I want to export as a discreet file (something I do constantly).
Conceptually, it’s like the difference between global and local. Why not simply allow for both? I see no reason why global metadata ranges and local In/Out points couldn’t happily co-exist.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
jeremy – THAT IS A TRULY FANTASTIC POST.
to you sir.
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “jeremy – THAT IS A TRULY FANTASTIC POST.
to you sir.”
Thanks!
If you aren’t having fun then what is the point?
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[David Lawrence] “If the geniuses in Cupertino really are debating persistent In and Out points and reading source timecode, I think the case of Apple of not understanding what editors do makes itself. “
Err… these are absolutely implementation details. Neither of these behaviors is in any way required by the process of editing in the abstract.
(And these UI issues are not a clear-cut as they might appear. Source timecode for clips in the timeline can be trivially found by using the ‘Open in Timeline’ command. I imagine the debate is over whether to allow the main timecode viewer to be switched to show source timecode, something that would be useful, but potentially confusing, thus the debate. As far as persistent in/out points, I suspect the ‘con’ argument is that explicitly marking favorites is better practice and not very hard to adapt to.)
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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