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The New Adobe
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Realistically, I can’t imagine how you could use old “off-ramped” software with all of the new formats, resolutions, codecs, and available computing power today.”
Jeremy,
I think this just shows how unaware you are of all the people still using FCP 1-7 – released in 2009 (arguable not substantially updated since 2007), and still a compelling solution five years later.
Franz.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “, I can’t imagine how you could use old “off-ramped” software with all of the new formats, resolutions, codecs, and available computing power today.”
A lot of people still use FCP Legend (which IMO hasn’t had a significant upgrade since FCP 6 in 2007), I rarely land an Avid gig that’s using the most recent version and CS 6 (which is just short of 2yrs old) is going to be used until the wheels fall off by users that don’t like CC (see FCP 7). And when the wheels do fall off that user base will then move to Avid, FCP X, Lightworks or maybe even Resolve (if it keeps gaining NLE functionality).
If your workflow is typically self-contained (i.e. you aren’t swapping project files back and fourth) it’s pretty easy to use ‘old’ software. Even for out of house finishing all you need is the ability to send an OMF/AAF to the mixer and send an XML or EDL to the colorist and you are good to go.
Adobe doesn’t even have to put forth any extra effort for support. Users can ‘off ramp’ with the software as is with regards to feature upgrades. Period. Locked. Done. It’s frozen in time. Just like any other piece of perpetual license software.
Adobe has already said that, starting with CS6, it will continue to offer at least the last 5 major versions of all the Adobe software for CC customers which presumably means they will at least be a bare minimum of support (major bug fixes, security fixes, etc.,).
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “I think this just shows how unaware you are of all the people still using FCP 1-7 – released in 2009 (arguable not substantially updated since 2007), and still a compelling solution five years later.”
Honestly, I don’t think it’s the “compelling solution” part that keeps a lot of people on 7. It’s familiarity. Here on the shop floor, so to speak, we cut “high end” stuff, but 99% of it is offline and gets finished out of house. As such, we don’t need all the bells and whistles that are crammed into Pr, MC, and can be noted on to X.
Despite this, or maybe because of this, most folks here are still on 7. They are sometimes jealous of what I can do in X (“I gotta learn that…”) and some dabble with Pr (“It’s just like 7 but you don’t have to render!”) And yet… they just grind away on a discontinued, outdated NLE. It’s inertia keeping them on it. They’re pro’s, they know how 7 works, and they don’t have the time or inclination to learn anything new. Pr or X or MC. I’m the only person here who can jump between all of them. (though my MC chops suck these days…)
In that regard, I don’t think we’re unusual in this biz…
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “It’s familiarity. … we don’t need all the bells and whistles … It’s inertia keeping them on it. They’re pro’s, they know how 7 works …”
Charlie,
This is precisely my point (though you express it by emphasizing the negative). Using a tool that does the job and achieves what is necessary is “compelling”.
If a new tool comes along that seems worthwhile in terms of expense, time, effort, and capabilities, then people will be “compelled” to use it – they’ll want to, they’ll see value in it.
Newist is not always best.
Franz.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “As Adobe, is this who you build your business around? The people who don’t need to stay current? How much does that cost to keep track of the people that don’t need the updates? Lawrence says it’s minimal, and maybe he’s right, but what is the true cost in potential revenue, in lost time updating older applications, and then the lost time trying to keep up with all the versions. How does Adobe service those customers? And if they don’t service those customers, where is the good will?”
I don’t think this an “either/or” situation.
Adobe can easily build their business around the subscription model while also offering a perpetual option for customers who want it. If Avid, Autodesk, Red Giant and others can do it, so can Adobe. They could start tomorrow if they wanted to. The technical infrastructure is already in place and is trivial to implement.
I only see upside for Adobe — millions of customers who will never rent, again give Adobe their money. Win-win.
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David Lawrence
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “I think this just shows how unaware you are of all the people still using FCP 1-7 – released in 2009 (arguable not substantially updated since 2007), and still a compelling solution five years later.”
Mmm no.
I am one of those users. FCS3 is getting harder and harder to use for me. It simply does not do what I need it to do anymore, at least not without a whole lot of hand holding.
Jeremy
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “This is precisely my point (though you express it by emphasizing the negative). Using a tool that does the job and achieves what is necessary is “compelling”.”
In that sense i think we agree, and i really didn’t mean it in a negative way. Except…
[Franz Bieberkopf] “they’ll want to, they’ll see value in it.”
They do want to, and they see value in it. Having to re-render every time you make a change to a cut using a format, or composite level that 7 can’t play is a huge time-suck. But learning new software, even something as similar to 7 as Pr, is not easy. So they grind away, marveling at the fact that newer NLE’s play that sort of thing without messing a beat. A month of pain would save them a lot of time. oh well, eventually it’ll break…
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Ricardo Marty] “I adobe added those that need to stay current to those who dont it would mean more money. catering to a couple million users and shoving off 4 or 5 million users is dumb business.”
So you are saying there’s 7 million Pr license holders? Or 4-5 million people that are potentially holding out on subscribing to CC? If that were the case, rest assured, Adobe would want to sign up at least HALF of that, and would lay down the red carpet to do so.
Let’s be conservative and say it’s a half a million part time users. Adobe could, if they wanted to, monetize that group of people differently and still keep all the advantages of a rental model, and offer no perpetual options beyond CS6.
Jeremy
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[David Lawrence] “If Avid, Autodesk, Red Giant and others can do it, so can Adobe.”
Adobe did do it. The first year of CC was CS6 where you could subscribe, or buy, and then they cut the cord. How long until Avid, and Red Giant cut it? Autodesk, according to what Oliver Peters said the other day, is cutting it in 2015 for Flame, Flame Premium, and Smoke. After next year, you can stay on v2015 forever, or you rent, similar to CS6
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/67796
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/67881
[David Lawrence] “I only see upside for Adobe — millions of customers who will never rent, again give Adobe their money. Win-win.”
I don’t doubt there’s a win/win here. What Herb said is right, heat brings out the truth. Al Mooney might not quite have meant what he said, but I would certainly not ignore the sentiment.
Do you really think that Adobe would stand to gain 2 million more customers with a perpetual option? If so, why haven’t they done it? I am sure Adobe has made, what they think, is a strong business move. If somehow doubling your customer base overnight by tweaking the license agreement was in the cards, I am 92.7% sure they’d act on that. Wouldn’t you?
Jeremy
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its on record that adobe had 8 million cs users and 4 million single product users. so i just took half of the cs userbase.
so indeed adobe gave up 3 or 4 times its costumer base for an unclud service.
ricardo marty
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