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The most important audio-related question in the world!
If you have to choose between clear audio that has low volume, and average quality audio but with normal volume levels… which do you choose, and why?
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13 Replies
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2 answer this , I need to ask more questions.
What is the noise floor like on the lower recording. And how low is it exactly.
What makes the average recording average. Noise / distortion / noise floor high?Peter
Post Production Dubbing Mixer
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The lower recording is very clear but peaks at about -30db. The average recording is from the internal mic of the camera, so it comes with the quality you’d expect (slight echo, a little tinny).
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Why do you have to choose? I don’t think you are asking the right question.
If I had such a problem, I would identify all the involved equipment, how I was setting it up, interconnecting it, and using it. It might even be useful to post a sample clip somewhere so that people can hear what you are trying to describe.
You have asked an unanswerable question. There doesn’t seem much point in discussing it.
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Everything has already been recorded, and is as descrbed above. So now what im trying to determine is what audio should I focus on improving? Clear audio with low volume or audio with a lot of background noise but normal volume levels?
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Well based on what you say and not having heard anything I d go for the low clean audio and boost.
Can you post a clip so we can have a listen . That way it’s less hypothetical
PeterPost Production Dubbing Mixer
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You don’t really have “clear audio with low volume”. Because if you did, when you boosted the level, you would still have “clear audio”.
What you have is audio with poor signal-to-noise ratio, and by listening at a low level, you fool yourself by also reducing the noise level.
So your real question is, “how do I reduce the noise in my recording”? As Mr. Groom says, nobody can offer a practical answer to that question without hearing it. This isn’t a philosophical debate, it is simply a common technical question.
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Richard,
This gets to the core of a thread I was having with Ty about calibrating the mixer to the camcorder and what base level would usable. Ty would not answer directly and if I am understanding your comment correctly explains why.
If you were in a sound proof room and recorded any sound that registered at the lowest possible point on an audio meter, if there was no competing sounds at all (including camera noise), are you saying in theory, that if you then boosted that sound in post the result would be perfectly acceptable?
Craig
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Craig Alan] “If you were in a sound proof room and recorded any sound that registered at the lowest possible point on an audio meter, if there was no competing sounds at all (including camera noise), are you saying in theory, that if you then boosted that sound in post the result would be perfectly acceptable?”
Yes and no. 😉
As usual there are other questions that need to be answered first. Primarily what bit depth is your recording? If the recording was low and you boost it, what you are technically doing in the digital domain is throwing away bits at the top and padding with zeros at the bottom. When recording in 24 bits, you have a theoretical 144 dB of dynamic range, vs ~96 dB of dynamic range for 16 bits.
Basically for every 6dB of gain applied, you’ve just lopped off a bit from your recording and reduced your dynamic range. In the theoretical world of which you speak, you could basically apply 48dB of gain to your 24bit recording and essentially leave yourself with the equivalent of a 16bit version.
However, we don’t live in a perfect world and there is always noise present, no matter what. Even the electronics themselves present low-level noise, so any gain raises this noise too.
I think the answer to the OP’s question is: apply the needed gain to the “quiet” recording and see if it sounds better than the “louder” recording. If it sounds better, then it IS better.
Chris Conlee
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Thanks. Theoretically, I follow you; but actually it’s a little over my head. But your post did help.
In practice, I still like to hear (monitor) what I’m recording while leaving enough headroom to not clip. What I have experienced with very limited skills in post is that with clean sound (not distorted or noisy) the levels can be adjusted to a degree. Distorted sounds remain distorted and low-level clean sound can be raised, but more noise is added.
However, I have not used a dedicated recorder or a laptop to record sound as others have suggested would be a big improvement and allow for lower/safer recording levels. This view is in contradiction to some of the audio pros on this forum (the lower levels not the advantage of a better recording device), who advocate recording in the yellow zone of the mixer’s meter while carefully monitoring for unwanted noise and for spikes that would necessitate leaving more headroom.
Hearing is believing, so I will experiment with all these approaches and see what works best. We will still use camcorders as the audio recorder in many shoots, where simpler is better, and I will try other approaches as we get the chance. I do have a firewire mixer, Mackie Onyx 1220i, but the only laptop I have is a few years old and I’m not sure if its good to go with the new FCPX, (FCP is listed, on Mackie’s site as compatible with the mixer). I could use one of our Imacs, however, to test it out.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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In practice you always want to get the best signal to noise ratio you can. Get the microphone as close to the subject as humanly possible, and try to keep it pointed at the speaker’s mouth at all times. Eliminate all background noises that you can, such as refrigerators, etc. Then, if recording in 24bit, I think you can safely shoot for the low-yellow on your meter, which will probably be something like -20dB ish. You actually have a lot of headroom at 24 bit to adjust gain. The quality of your recording and the signal to noise ratio are your two biggest concerns, in my opinion.
Also, depending on your recording gear, you could also add some protection by recording thru a limiter. But be careful with that, as some limiters can add funky noise and/or artifacts to your recording. I’ve especially noticed noisy recordings from H4 recorders when the limiter is engaged.
Chris Conlee
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