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The Honda Ad Timeline
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Or did it magically remove itself when X came out? Which “ability” did X take away exactly? I’m very curious.”
Within 6 months of Apple launching X, facilities and shows in LA started ditching FCP Legend for Avid which meant that freelance editors that only knew the old FCP started seeing a ticking clock on the usefulness of their skill set. Not everyone has say over which NLE they get to use on a given project.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Could it be that you haven’t been around much lately? There has never been another NLE that has gained more ground faster than X. “
Could it be that your reading comprehension needs improvement? You snipped off/ignored the rest of my comment where I specifically talk about large markets and large facilities (not to mention my other posts in the conversation Charlie and I were having).
[Robin S. Kurz] “And sorry, there was no “EOLing” of FCP 7 (unless you consider FCP 1-6 EOLed also).”
Yes, FCP 1-6 were EOLed too. End Of Life means the product is no longer sold, supported and/or maintained by its manufacturer. Pretty much every company EOLs the old product once the new one comes out.
[Robin S. Kurz] “To suggest that nearly FOUR YEARS to decide what’s best for you going forward somehow isn’t enough is just witless rhetoric IMHO and certainly has nothing to do with Apple or FCP.”
Who suggested that? I’m talking about people’s reaction to Apple shortly after X was released and how that helped influence their decision to go with PPro or Avid instead of X.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” Cherry-picking the only one relevant to oneself as a measure for an entire industry is a statistically useless logical fallacy.”
Not cherry picking or extrapolating anything, just telling a personal anecdote. Which is why I made sure to use the word “personally” in my post (and “in my neck of the woods” in another post) so people wouldn’t think I was making a blanket statement. The regulars in this forum have gotten to a point where we don’t have to go to great lengths to qualify every post because we pretty much know where one another is coming from. You’re the new guy here so I don’t fault you for not being able to follow the short hand.
I have an idea of where people like Bill, Herb, Tony, Walter, etc., are coming from and they have an idea of where I’m coming from so by sharing our individual stories and observations we get insight and exposure to segments of the industry we wouldn’t normally have contact with. It’s not about painting with broad strokes but pointing out a specific tile in the large, and varied, mosaic that is our industry. Ultimately though everyone is more concerned about what’s going on in their neck of the woods. I mean, FCP X helps Bill execute his goals so he is super excited about X but in my neck of the woods knowing X won’t help me execute my goals so I have little motivation to learn X until that changes.
For reference, I’m a currently a freelance editor in LA. My genre of choice is documentary/unscripted and I’ve run the gambit from working on tiny web series to big, multi-editor shows to independent documentaries. I did a lot of assistant editor work and workflow development too so I’m also very interested in the nuts and bolts side of things. When I recount my experiences and give my POV it’s in order to give others a window into my segment of the industry, not to project my experience as ‘the norm’ onto everyone else.
[Robin S. Kurz] “. To suggest that someone is a more decent or even better editor just because he’s more familiar with a certain software package or editing paradigm is ludicrous if you ask me.”
Who’s suggesting that?
[Robin S. Kurz] “And there’s absolutely nothing “predictable” about any aspect of this industry, be it software or hardware and no matter which OEM you’re talking about.”
Agreed, which is one reason I find POV’s like Bill ‘worrying’ that the U.S. isn’t adopting X fast enough weird. In 10 years the NLE landscape is going to be different anyway so why all the hand wringing about what people use today when it’s most likely going to change tomorrow? In the past 6 months I’ve had gigs on Avid MC, FCP 7 and PPro and I see this as par for the course for people in my position. The 7 jobs will keep tapering off and eventually X will be more viable in my neck of the woods but I’ve stopped concerning myself about what may or may not happen with my tools of the trade 5, 10 or 15 years down the road. If something can help me make a living today I’ll look into it. If it might help me make a living three years from now I’ll check in on it three years from now. 😉
Again, just my POV. I know different people have different needs.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Okay… now my fingers hurt. ;P”
Don’t jump to so many conclusions and you won’t hurt your fingers excessively typing to argue against points that weren’t made. 😉
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[Oliver Peters] “Admittedly this attitude has shifted (again) under Cook. But only in so much as it involves specific software deals and product features within iPad and iPhone.”
Ok, good. Life under Jobs is one thing, life under Cook will be another.
You don’t have to look too much past iOS8 to see it. Of course, Apple’s Enterprise will never look like HP’s enterprise, but I would not count Apple out of the enterprise market, and perhaps the “enterprise” 100 hour per frame render market as well.
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Apple are dipping a toe back into the water
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/11/05/applecare-for-enterprise-now-available/
Apple & IBM alliance, that could shake things up a bit in Enterprise
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[James Ewart] “Owning a word processing software and a computer does not turn you into a great writer”
No, of course not. But if you’re a great and/or talented writer to begin with, then that word processor can offer you options and possibilities to make your work a LOT easier, more flexible and give you more room for experimentation and creativity. Making you at minimum a more efficient if not also a better writer than just with pen and paper, yes. Which is why I don’t in fact buy into the whole notion of “the tool (i.e. app) is irrelevant”. It sounds so romantic. Too bad it’s delusional in today’s reality.
If that were even vaguely true, why would we even have computers to start with? Why aren’t we all still on Steenbecks or iMovie for that matter? The tool certainly isn’t the all-deciding factor, but it most definitely plays a huge part.
[James Ewart] “when you have been earning a living a certain way, for many years and you are freelance with a mortgage to pay and kids to feed, you can feel a bit threatened by some of these developments.”
If you are going along with the developments then I have no idea what could be threatening. If someone is just plain unwilling or unable to LEARN, then it doesn’t matter which profession they’re in in, they’ll become irrelevant… and this guy:
It’s a choice, nothing else. Every profession has gone through massive changes at one point or another. Name me one that hasn’t. People from the printing industry for example can only chuckle at the “problems” that we face. And what if your physician were to say “Leeches and blood letting worked for everything then, it’ll work for everything now!”? Is that someone you would go to? Or maybe rather the one that is constantly reading medical journals and going to seminars on new practices, procedures and treatments?
[James Ewart] “But that is human nature.”
A gross generalization and cheap cop-out IMHO. It’s certainly not my nature. It’s a friggen app we’re talking about, not some alien invasion. But apparently some prefer to see the two as equal. 😀
[James Ewart] “These guys have not been earning a living purely on the strength of knowing which buttons to push.”
Of course not. But they also aren’t the ones trolling FCP X forums and groups with childish snark, solipsistic arguments and going on about things they don’t understand to begin with either. 😉 The ones that are, are the only ones “being disrespectful” of others, seemingly trying to remedy a strong inferiority-complex? Giving themselves some macabre sense of supremacy by scoffing at anyone that dare think differently, appreciate something other than what they do, or dare suggest they MAY actually be able to do something better if they simply let off at least some of their old dogmas and habits.
But it’s won’t be going away any time soon, so… ah well. 🙂
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Andrew Kimery] “Pretty much every company EOLs the old product once the new one comes out.”
Except Avid, which for some strange reason keeps supporting software up to two major versions prior to the new release. I know they have to keep the big broadcasters happy, but what a seemingly waste of time and resources to make someone happy with (mostly free) patches and updates who won’t upgrade to the new software. I gotta feeling this will change as the new subscription model takes hold.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “Except Avid, which for some strange reason keeps supporting software up to two major versions prior to the new release. I know they have to keep the big broadcasters happy,”
Completely untrue that this is just for big broadcasters. This is a tremendous benefit to all users. Having to chase versions in Apple and Adobe software is a huge PITA if you have to exchange project files with other people in the chain.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[James Ewart] “Owning a word processing software and a computer does not turn you into a great writer”
Rpbin Kurz “No, of course not. But if you’re a great and/or talented writer to begin with, then that word processor can offer you options and possibilities to make your work a LOT easier, more flexible and give you more room for experimentation and creativity. Making you at minimum a more efficient if not also a better writer than just with pen and paper, yes. Which is why I don’t in fact buy into the whole notion of “the tool (i.e. app) is irrelevant”. It sounds so romantic. Too bad it’s delusional in today’s reality. ”
I don’t think you quite got my point. I was not being literal. I was kind of agreeing with you in fact. That just because the technology is within everybody’s grasp that does not take away form the skills of the person writing the script or editing the movie. Now that many people can read and write it doesn’t mean many people can “write”.
And speaking of reading skills every time you write the word solipsistic I have to look it up.
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[James Ewart] “I was not being literal. I was kind of agreeing with you in fact.”
Ah okay… missed that, yes. Maybe it was the “kind of” that threw me. 😉
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Oliver Peters] “Completely untrue that this is just for big broadcasters.”
Sorry Oliver, but not “completely…” Every time I talk about this to users or to Avid folk, it’s the big installs that don’t want to change and want the (free) updates and patches to old versions. I include “big broadcast” in “big installs”. And Avid is most concerned about the big installs. Based on feedback, I would dare say Avid would love to not service out of date versions. But, big money talks…
If you have a version that works with your situation, you stay there until you are ready or have to upgrade. I personally don’t want Avid to be using valuable and scarce development resources on old versions. Once a new version comes out, the old version should be frozen.
The again, I voluntarily “froze” my Media Composer version at 7.0.4 via not doing the subscription update….and so it goes.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “[Oliver Peters] “Completely untrue that this is just for big broadcasters.”
Sorry Oliver, but not “completely…” Every time I talk about this to users or to Avid folk, it’s the big installs that don’t want to change “I think you missed the point. I said it was completely untrue that it was JUST for big broadcasters. They do certainly benefit from it, though.
[Scott Witthaus] “The again, I voluntarily “froze” my Media Composer version at 7.0.4 via not doing the subscription update….and so it goes.”
This validates my point. If Avid released a hypothetical 7.0.4.1 update in order to be backwards compatible with some feature in 8.x, then you have benefited from that. This means a customer can hand you a project file from the higher version and you can still work with it. You only have to update to the patched version, which didn’t cost you anything. It benefits YOU more than it does Avid, however, the software is coded in a modular fashion, which probably makes this less of an R&D issue than you think.
When 4K is released, HD projects will likely still be backwards compatible. That’s a good thing for small users and three-letter networks alike.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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