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The Heading for this forum Needs to change…
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[Bill Davis] “As someone who took me to task (quite correctly) for the potentially dismissive nature of leaving an “e” off Premiere, I’m a bit surprised at the “this is no big deal” response.”
I said this was a pet peeve of mine (my own, me alone, IMO, not Adobe etc.) as it is pervasive. Does the spelling of Premiere make any difference of the product, its perception or its success? Absolutely not. Neither does the name of the forum affect the success of a product as you so eloquently attest daily here at the Cow.
[Bill Davis] ”
First, the title of the forum is not “FCPX debate or not”. It’s FCP X or Not, The Debate. Those two strings of words emphasize VERY different things.”To repeat myself…
Cut’n’paste
1 – The forum title, “FCPX or Not: the Debate” never makes the statement that FCPX is a toy. It is individuals and particular threads that do that. Furthermore and perhaps most importantly, whatever you change the title of the forum to, that point will still be made by some. As someone who has worked with the “toy” NLE Premiere Pro for 10+ years, I can say this, “get over it.” You choose your tool, you go to your happy place, you edit and all is good – who cares what other people say?
2 – As a supporting point, do you notice that Adobe employees never chafe at the Creative Cloud Debate forum? They’re employees yet respect the community and their points of view. I would argue that we’re all (mostly) grownups and can deal with contrarian points of view. That’s what makes the Cow community and this forum in particular, great.Nothing will change by changing the title of the forum, development of your favorite tools and their perception in the industry will. Again, see Premiere Pro’s very long history and bumpy, turning road as an example.
All of THAT said, if people really want to change it, heck – why not?
end cut’n’paste
I almost have to ask if you read my first response? Maybe start with what is now bold
[Bill Davis] “I wonder how sensitive to the topic you might be if you had been showing up on a forum for 4 years where the discussion centers around the PRESUMPTION that there must be very valid reasons NOT to use Premiere?”
I guess I already have an answer to my question above since I preemptively addressed it in point #1. Premiere Pro was dismissed as a toy for far more than 4 years.
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The biggest problem that I see Dean is that the forum wasn’t created so people could have a debate, the forum was created to put people that were already having the debate in one place. Changing the name or issuing a decree isn’t going to stop people from having these conversations, they will just have them elsewhere across the COW then Tim (or someone else at the COW) is going to have to make a new forum and herd all the debaters into that forum.
[Dean Neal] ” I would like to see this forum continue its spirited (even passionate or heated) debate on FCP X, but also to use this area as a discussion point to actually grow the product, its understanding and the knowledge base of those who use it.”
So lead the way and start threads that focus on that in here. If things get too tangental maybe you can ask Tim to split off any renegade posts into their own thread? Or start those threads in the FCP X Techniques forum for a more homogeneous audience or in the Art of the Edit forum for a less contentious audience.
On more than one occasion Bill has lamented how this forum isn’t like all the other X forums and websites he visits and I’ve always seen that as a good thing. If you want to talk with other X users strictly about X there are a number of well established places on the Internet for that. Why take someplace that, IMO, is rather unique and change it into something that’s more run of the mill?
[Dean Neal] “When I see awesome threads like the one about the early days of NLE development on a MAC, inevitably be railroaded into yet another diatribe about how PPro is real deal and FCP X is crap or whatever…”
Minor correction, the thread hijacking got on the fast track when someone basically declared X the best NLE hands down and challenged anyone to present examples to the contrary. Although the hijacking was unfortunate (though foreseeable because we are the masters of branching conversations in here) it did yield some interesting results including a thread about feature request for X (made only by X users) and an upcoming show-and-tell from Jeremy regarding something him and David were discussing.
[Dean Neal] “however this notion that FCPX is “just a toy” needs to be put to bed.”
It never will so people need to stop expecting it to happen. Some people always considered FCP Legend a piece of crap, some people will always consider X a piece of crap, some people will always consider PPro a piece of crap, some people will always consider Avid a piece of crap, etc,.. And no, X hasn’t not been singled out in this regard, not by a long shot. Uniform acceptance will never happen (how many decades have we lived with Mac vs PC? Chevy vs Ford?) and even threads about using PPro or Avid can get torn down here as quickly as threads about using X.
[Dean Neal] “but I ask myself, why do they expend so much energy in doing it?”
It doesn’t matter why and they will keep doing it so all you can do is ignore them. I have my own list of people here that I just won’t engage with because it’s beyond pointless. Don’t feed the trolls, as they say.
[Dennis Radeke] “I guess I already have an answer to my question above since I preemptively addressed it in point #1. Premiere Pro was dismissed as a toy for far more than 4 years.”
Around the turn of the century I was a young buck with big dreams and a custom built PC running Premiere 6 (original Premiere, not Pro) with a Matrox RT2500 I/O card. I think even the grinders just offering copy and credit looked down on me for using Premiere (on a PC no less). Needless to say I spent a long time scraping together what money I could so I could buy a Mac and a copy of FCP (3 I think it was). Magically I went from no-good bum to indie artist raging against the machine. 😉
EDIT: Fixed a grammatical error. I’m sure there are more. :/
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[Dennis Radeke] “1 – The forum title, “FCPX or Not: the Debate” never makes the statement that FCPX is a toy. It is individuals and particular threads that do that.”
Very well put Dennis.
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Well said! I really do appreciate your contribution, Dennis. Might not always agree with you but do my best to do so in a respectful manner. Please continue your excellent work and I look forward, as always, to your words of wisdom. If you have a moment, I would like some assistance in joining Photoshop.
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[Dean Neal] “Surely its time to simply just call it – Apple FCPX?”
The title of this forum isn’t relevant anymore. But a more accurate name would be “which NLE do you prefer,” which isn’t as controversial or dramatic as the current name. And the folks at creative cow know that in order to keep folks coming back here they need to create some drama even if it is fictional at this point. No different than any film or TV show; a more accurate analogy in this case would be a reality TV show.
I do find some of the more informed discussion of NLEs interesting which is why I keep coming back here. I just try to ignore the more ignorant opinions about FCPX, and the incorrect title.
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[James Culbertson] “But a more accurate name would be “which NLE do you prefer,” which isn’t as controversial or dramatic as the current name.”
Exactly.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
Hi Dennis…
on a non debate subject, when can we download the latest Premiere Pro and other creative cloud goodness updates mentioned at NAB?
Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852 -
When the regular contributors to this forum ask for a name change then I am sure Tim will take notice. I think the past couple of requests have come from first time posters to this forum.
The title has a certain historic significance. It will need more than one or two new poster to move that inertia. Software gets better, the debate rolls on. Just bookmark the page and add your own title to the bookmark.
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[Michael Gissing] “The title has a certain historic significance. It will need more than one or two new poster to move that inertia. Software gets better, the debate rolls on. Just bookmark the page and add your own title to the bookmark.”
Exactly.
Still plenty to debate and who knows what the future will bring. The name is perfect!
p.s. welcome new poster! 🙂
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
https://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums -
minor rant – but this is stupid though right?
any modern VA editing system that has modes, the manipulation keyframe timeline, and god knows what else growing out of every clip like an elephantiasis tumor top hat is maybe not completely on the money yes? And then there’s the square tomato colour wheel. Surely the thing is that X is so insanely moronic in so many odd ways.
to get a proper colour corrector in X you have to float the window or have the plug in GUI interfere with the scopes. X feels so weirdly determined by its physical shape. And apparently apple are loathe to alter it. so you have a grey strip with the most ridiculous timecode reader god ever invented. maybe there is a floating timecode reader now.
tens of thousands of editors are going to land on apple, out in the world, with both feet, for X, until the sun goes cold. Apple went up their own ass on simplicity, rigidity and the in house hothouse, some people followed them. Also have they successfully split temporal and spatial smoothing options there in the last release because I’m not totally sure. Just take a moment and look at that keyframe system architecture.
No, I’m really not joking you. Seriously – try and look at it steadily for more than ten seconds.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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