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The Color Wheels Mystery …
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Hi Simon. I grade in Resolve. I don’t have X but I get projects from editors who use it and they often ask me for advice on their simple jobs where they have to do a basic grade so I need to understand it.
I was curious if the way X’s new tools in rec 709 were somehow trying to simplify grading log type camera originals but not so. Like you I was trying to figure if there was intent in the way they have done it but it just looks like a bug to me. When software behaves differently between the two color spaces and requires more not less effort to get a result, plus it acts differently to all known grading systems, then I’m happy to call it for what it is.
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[Neil Goodman] “Why do full fledged Color correction suites like Davinci and Baselight, etc use the same lingo? Got nothing to do with Avid.”
Again, you are quoting as if those are my opinions..
They are the opinion of a color scientist who knows boatloads more than I do about this stuff.
I’m just trying to make sense of the current criticism of the X approach to color tools n 10.4.
That’s all.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Herb Sevush] “there is confusion out there and sweeping it under the rug does not make it go away.”
Life is FULL of confusion, Herb.
Some natural – some generated.
I just posted a MacBreak from Steve and Mark that’s one of the early communication pieces that may be helping people understand some of Apples approach with this VERY new implementation of Color Correction/Grading.
I’m sure more will follow.
For those of us without a color science background – looks like 10.4 might help us explore color options in some interesting ways – even if it won’t instantly make any of us professional colorists or manage to TOTALLY replace Baselight across the industry – a thing I highly doubt was ever Apples intent.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “I’m just trying to make sense of the current criticism of the X approach to color tools n 10.4.”
Because they work very weirdly, and the same processes work expectedly in one space, but not in another. This also goes for the Color Board, so it is not limited to “X’s color approach in 10.4” but rather legacy tools that have already been developed.
If you hit the play button and the timeline started to rewind in 5x speed, would you think that Apple reimagined that play button or that maybe there’s an issue?
Have you shown the Facebook society this post?
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/99802#99839
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[Bill Davis] “For those of us without a color science background – looks like 10.4 might help us explore color options in some interesting ways – even if it won’t instantly make any of us professional colorists or manage to TOTALLY replace Baselight across the industry – a thing I highly doubt was ever Apples intent.”
All we’ve been asking for is why the new tools work in a non-standard fashion. If there’s any logic behind how they behave, let’s know what the best practices should be. The fact that the color wheels do not work the same in different color spaces indicates a definite issue.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Bill Davis] “Apples approach with this VERY new implementation of Color Correction/Grading.
“The approach is actually very old school, lol.
The color boards were a VERY new implementation of color correction/grading. They essentially just gave us back the Color App in a new, improved, and integrated way. Definitely cannot complain about that and I’m sure the bug will be fixed eventually.
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Thanks Oliver. While your suggestion is probably the most practical, I am still evaluating whether filming in 4k for eventual 1080 p carries enough advantages to outweigh the extra time, effort and storage. I did a test using 4k (150 Mb/s) color graded in Apple’s 10.4 FCPX color system and then compressed it to 1080 p for the web. This went fast enough (1 min video took 6 min to compress on my mid 11 27″ iMac) and it used all the cores all the time as opposed to what happened with a similar project graded in Chromatic.
So in this way, I give Apple Color a plus. Overall, I like it and think I can do what I need without Chromatic or Color Finale. Not having floating panels in the way is a big plus.
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Hey everyone, I was just as excited to see color wheels in fcpx as anyone else, but now I’m thoroughly confused.
Has anyone looked at bars and the vector scope with this issue?
After reading through this very exciting thread, I wanted to see what the adjustments did to more real life footage. But before I even got to making adjustments, the color of the footage seemed off. The images were desaturated, and the signals on the scopes appeared to be “clamped”.
I imported some old footage that I exported out of an older version of fcpx, as well as a jpg test chart.
Not matching up with the visual saturation and scope trace I was seeing in Resolve, I checked them in PP and MC as well. Resolve, PP, and MC gave the expected results, fcpx, not so much. Here are some screen shots.
I don’t know what’s going on here, but I can see the potential for problems, obviously. Thinking you need to boost the colors, and rendering out an image way too saturated. Or, maybe it will all even out in the end as it goes through the render process, but even so, you would be doing more work than you need to do.
I don’t know, maybe there is a new preference switch that I haven’t clicked on or something, but I really don’t have any confidence right now on how fcpx is handling my media.
It could be my system or setup, so it be nice to know if anyone else is seeing similar results. Thanks.
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[Mike Bonner] “It could be my system or setup, so it be nice to know if anyone else is seeing similar results. Thanks.”
First of all, be very, very careful in making any color judgements based on the viewer, as well as screen grabs from the UI. Do you have an i/o output to a broadcast monitor for a neutral comparison? Because of Apple’s Color Profile, different applications deal differently with the viewer image and don’t match each other. This includes taking screen grabs.
Export a ProRes file from each and then compare the various exports against each other. In theory these should all match if settings are neutral, even if they looked different from one viewer to another. I have found these differences to be worse with non-Apple displays than with Apple-branded displays. Their “secret sauce” I suppose.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Mike Bonner] “After reading through this very exciting thread, I wanted to see what the adjustments did to more real life footage.”
I did that here with luma values using the wheel “brightness”, then the color board exposure values. This was with log footage and no LUT:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/99896
[Mike Bonner] “Not matching up with the visual saturation and scope trace I was seeing in Resolve, I checked them in PP and MC as well. Resolve, PP, and MC gave the expected results, fcpx, not so much.”
Try clicking the scope button with the waveform on it and change the scale from 100% to 133%.
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