The Color Wheels Mystery …

[Simon Ubsdell]

[Bill Davis] “This might well be a BUG.”

Dear all,

Please, please, please stop calling it a “bug”.

There is nothing more guaranteed to get developers wanting to ignore you (and worse) than when you call it that without having the full picture.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki

[Michael Hancock]

[Simon Ubsdell] “There is nothing more guaranteed to get developers wanting to ignore you (and worse) than when you call it that without having the full picture.
“

If only we had the full picture from someone that would actually know what’s going on. Like, from Apple, maybe? ☺

Did they learn nothing from the launch of FCPX, about launching a product that’s different from everything else out there, without any info to explain the whats and whys?

—————-
Michael Hancock
Editor

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “If it ISN’T the damage to the softwares public perception will be all that remains.”

And I will argue that your ONLY concern is public perception – not how this issue (is it OK to call it an “issue” – or is there some other “correct speech” I need to use) effects editors.

[Bill Davis] “My point is there MAY be a bug – or there may be nothing of the sort.

It’s YOU who was triggered to attach the terms “error” and “bug” and “broken” to this discussion in your post.

So that’s clearly the top level impression this thread has spiked for you.

IF it proves to be none of those things, just understand you are the guy who ends up spreading the FUD.

Not clarifying things. “

Yes I used those terms, never in an accusing way, trying to assuage your fears because “even IF” – that’s the qualifier – the worst is true, it’s still no big deal – NBD.

And no matter if this proves to be a software “cockroach” or Apple simply coming up with a unique implementation of the color wheel paradigm – either way it has to be addressed by Apple. Insect or not, genius innovation or not, there is confusion out there and sweeping it under the rug does not make it go away. You want greater acceptance of FCPX – then encourage open communication. I repeat – silence is the only enemy.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf

[Michael Gissing]

Bug, feature? What does it look like in practical application? Graduated grey is handy to show this but I’m curious if it is useful to use this grading algorithm on say log footage.

Because of the different behavior in the different color space I tend to think it’s a bug. The two color spaces do not have different behaviors for lift, gain & gamma in any other system. If it’s a feature, then it is entirely fair for users to expect Apple to explain why they have deviated from standard processing in one color space and not another.

[Oliver Peters]

[Michael Gissing] “Graduated grey is handy to show this but I’m curious if it is useful to use this grading algorithm on say log footage. “

I’ve used it a bit and the correction is functional but nothing impressive. Because you are chasing the unwanted level changes, you end up doing more correction moves than necessary. For exposure and saturation, the Color Board is more accurate. Overall Curves is probably the tool to use.

I’ve found the best approach to the Color Wheels is a counter-clockwise workflow. Use the Master to pin the blacks at the bottom. Then expand the image using Highlights. Midtones tends to function like black stretch in old cameras. So next, adjust Mids to gain more brightness in the lower 2/3 of the image. Finally, use Shadow to bring the blacks back down a bit (again).

Grading in Resolve, even with a mouse, is waaaaaaay faster and better looking.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Michael Gissing] “Bug, feature? What does it look like in practical application? Graduated grey is handy to show this but I’m curious if it is useful to use this grading algorithm on say log footage. “

Much differently:

[Michael Gissing]

So it’s a bug.

Thanks Oliver & Jeremy for the feedback

[Simon Ubsdell]

Hi Michael,

My advice, if you want to grade Alexa LogC (without a LUT) using the color wheels, is not to touch the Shadows control.

Set the black level with the Midtones control and adjust the Highlights as required.

If you try setting the blacks with the Shadows control first, you will make life more difficult than it needs to be.

And of course, use a first instance of the CW to balance the shot and only apply your look to another instance or instances.

Edit: I don’t mean to suggest there is anything anomalous about this. In fact, it shows that the Midtones correction is indeed a true gamma correction, and it’s gamma that is going to flatten out the Log curve and get you to a balanced place.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki

[Claude Lyneis]

For a while I have been using the Chromatic plug-in, but may need to switch to the Apple color system. If I grade 4k in Chromatic and then try to compress to 1080 p for the web, the compressor spends something like 2 hours for a 7 minute piece using a single processor probably to deal with the color grading. Only near the end does it utilize the four cores properly. Without the color grading, it does the compression much faster.

Any experience with the new Apple color system and Compressor?

[Oliver Peters]

[Claude Lyneis] “If I grade 4k in Chromatic and then try to compress to 1080 p for the web, the compressor spends something like 2 hours for a 7 minute piece using a single processor probably to deal with the color grading”

I would suggest a 2-stage process. Export 4K to 4K ProRes or 4K to 1080 ProRes from FCPX. Then in Compressor create the H264 version for the web from the ProRes master file. This might be a lot faster. Or if you don’t really ever need a 4K version, just work in 1080.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com