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The Color Wheels Mystery …
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Hi, I also think it’s a bug…. the “Curves” works fine and the “Color board” too. The problem is only in the “Color Wheels” it seems the engeneerings have not finish their job… if you try to insert a numerical value in brightness and saturation controls of “color wheels” you can do it… but it doesn’t work. ☺ “Color board” has remain for the compatibility with older projects. We need to inform Apple
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[Simon Ubsdell] “I’ve made a short video to try and explain my confusion:”
I take it you deleted it, since it’s showing up as non-existent for me? I’d be very curious to better understand the confusion.
[Bill Davis] “This kinda got hashed out 2 weeks ago on the 28,000 member Final Cut Pro X Editors Facebook Group.
“Any chance one could get you to post a Link?
Cheers,
RK____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
Thanks, Bill, and others who have kindly sent me extracts from the Facebook discussion.
I’d like to make it clear right up front that, despite how some people have read it, my video was not suggesting that there is a “bug” here, let alone a mistake.
Apple are using a different color model to the one that I think I and most other casual users were expecting up front. And more importantly they are using a different model to the one they followed for the Color Board. Both of these things call for comment, I think, but since I don’t want to add to the confusion I have withdrawn the video.
The beauty of the conventional Lift/Gamma/Gain method is that it directly leverages the almost magical power of two numbers: one and zero.
If we multiply zero by any number you care to choose, the result is always zero. And that’s what a conventional Gain control does – it’s a simple multiplication. And Lift is a simple inversion of that.
Similarly and even more amazingly, if we raise either zero or one to the power of any number you care to choose, the results will always be zero and one respectively.
A conventional gamma correction uses a basic power function to raise or lower the midtones without affecting absolute black or absolute white.
These processes are not only beautifully simple, they are also beautifully effective, as I tried to show in the video.
When you are raising your whites (Highlights), you don’t want your blacks going milky. And that’s what the conventional Gain method guarantees.
When you are raising your blacks (Shadows), you don’t want your whites to start clipping. And that’s what the conventional Lift method guarantees.
When you are lowering your whites (Highlights), you don’t want your blacks to start clipping. And that’s what the conventional Gain method guarantees.
When you are lowering your blacks (Shadows), you don’t want your whites to start going grey. And that’s what the conventional Lift method guarantees.
And when you are raising or lowering your midtones, you don’t want the whites and blacks following along, you want them to stay at the points you have already set. And that’s what the conventional Gamma method guarantees.
As I showed in the video, the Color Board adheres to these fundamentally useful basic principles.
But the Color Wheels do not – because of the different model that they have adopted.
Instead of delivering the built-in protections of the Lift/Gamma/Gain method, the Color Wheels deliver something rather different, raising and lowering the very values that need to stay in place.
Again I want to stress that Apple have not “done anything wrong” here and it’s not a bug. It’s a choice they have legitimately made.
But it’s a slightly odd one, in my view.
In Hawaiki Color, the first ever color wheels solution for FCP X, we chose to use the conventional Lift/Gamma/Gain method, so you can see that I am prejudiced ????
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
[Robin S. Kurz] “I’d be very curious to better understand the confusion.”
See my post to Bill above. I hope that explains it.
Again I can’t stress strongly enough that this is not a bug or a mistake. It’s a feature.
I just find it a little curious. But that’s just me.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
[Simon Ubsdell] “As I showed in the video, the Color Board adheres to these fundamentally useful basic principles.”
Only I’m personally not actually seeing that what you describe as far as 0/100 values staying put. Neither (max/min) highlights nor shadows stay completely unaffected when adjusting the midtones, even with the color board as you describe. At some point they will go well above/below 100/0, too. Far from locked. It’s something that has always irked me and had hoped the color wheels would alleviate or rather offer an alternative to, only to in fact make matters worse, yes. Unless I’m doing/expecting something wrong?
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Neither (max/min) highlights nor shadows stay completely unaffected when adjusting the midtones, even with the color board as you describe.”
Yes, I did notice a little of that when doing the video.
Obviously the maths says that this shouldn’t actually happen.
0^gamma (or more practically speaking: 0^1/gamma) is always going to be zero whatever the input value. Similarly with 1^gamma (or 1^1/gamma) – the result should always be 1.
But the discrepancy is very small and is unlikely to be a problem in practice.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
I am curious as to why you think the behavior of the color wheels is a feature and not a bug? It looks like a bug, or, over all gain in place of a control that would affect a particular range of values.
If this represents some sort of paradigm shift, I’m not convinced I actually need it. -
[Simon Ubsdell] “Again I can’t stress strongly enough that this is not a bug or a mistake. It’s a feature.”
Seems to me that if it’s a “feature”, then people might look toward Hawaiki Color, the product that you worked on.
If it’s a “bug”, then apple will likely fix it in an update and people might not be as likely to seek out HC.
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I, like Robyn, have always noticed the discrepancy with the color board. It stands out even more with actual video footage tmwhere the blacks aren’t full on zero. They ramp up way too quickly when adjusting highlights.
But the wheels… they’re way worse in this regard.
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[Tony West] “Seems to me that if it’s a “feature”, then people might look toward Hawaiki Color, the product that you worked on.
If it’s a “bug”, then apple will likely fix it in an update and people might not be as likely to seek out HC.”
Disclaimer: Although I am very proud to have collaborated on Hawaiki Color and very grateful to the discriminating users who have sought it out over the years, I no longer have any commercial involvement with the product.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki
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