Thank You

[Jeremy Garchow]

Don’t be sorry. People are increasingly hostile on this forum.

If you questions are basic, you will find much more friendly advice on the Final Cut Basic forum:

https://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/200

Start there first and if you aren’t getting answers come back over here to the rabid pack of wolves that are the FCP ‘Professionals’.

Sorry you felt that way. The people who got mad at you sometimes forget where they came from.

Jeremy

[Winston A. cely]

I totally understand where you’re coming from. A lot of times, “noobie” questions are asked quite often and many of the regulars here can get tired of answering the same questions over and over again, and sometimes they might come off as a little out of sorts. Don’t let it get you down too much. They’re trying their best (and doing a great job 99.9% of the time) to keep everyone happy.

I’ve got two suggestions for the future that’ll save you and the others here time and energy and get us moving onward and upward. Try searching here first. Think of any term you can think of, use the Help in FCP or the actual books that came with it, and at least get the terms as close to the actual thing as possible. Not only will this help with questions asked here, but many times you’ll get your answer before you ask, or lead you down an even better road! Second, come here and read all the posts you can stand. Or at least the ones you’re curious about. I make it a point to read the post I have questions about first, the posts where I might be able to help next, and the other last. I don’t get to everything, but there’s been so many things I’ve learned just by reading these posts, without even posing the question! 🙂

Happy posting!
-Stone

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

“If God could do the tricks we can do, He’d be a happy Man.” – Peter O’Toole – “The Stuntman”

Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe

[Ed Dooley]

Jeremy and Winston,
I respectfully disagree with both of you. I just read through every post Greg’s made in this forum, and except for one instance where I think the other poster’s reply might have been perceived as harsh (and where the poster, Andreas, apologized after a dressing down by Jeremy), every response has been very helpful, or asked good questions to get more information in order to help Greg.
I personally subscribe to the “You can give the person a fish and they’ll eat for a day, or teach them to fish and they’ll eat for a lifetime” school. I know a number of very knowledgable people on other lists who were active in this forum, but left because of the “signal to noise” ration getting too big (Philip Hodgetts is one name that comes to mind). I think the COW did a smart thing by creating the FCP Basics forum, as well as a good search tool. I think it would be helpful if more of us helped new members use the most appropriate tools rather than just simply asking a repetitive question. It’s very frustrating to see the same question asked (and answered) ad nauseum, when the questioner should be doing a little work of their own first. I think it’s ignorance (and we can help steer them) or laziness (and I have no sympathy).
I do remember starting out (when it cost me 200 dollars for the first month of “internet” help because the internet charged by the hour). As a Media 100 version 1.0 user, it was critical to have a forum. We were all learning at the same time. Marianna at M100 was on the AOL forum with us every single day, 7 days a week. We were all newbies, there weren’t resources like the COW. But now there is the COW, let’s learn how to use it.
My 2 cents,
Ed

[Jeremy Garchow]
There are all different levels of users here. Obviously, Greg is just learning FCP so please give him a break. Don’t you remember the first time you sat down to an NLE or other new software? The Cow is perfect for someone like Greg. Next time suggest a search instead of jumping on him for not doing one. If you want to be real cool about it, search for him and link to it. If you don’t want to go through that trouble and all you want to do is talk down to Greg, don’t post. It doesn’t help anyone.
“

The only other response that didn’t simply ask a question for more info or give a short-term helpful answer was this one from me (but would help him, and us, in the long term!):
“Just a guess, but if your search terms were anywhere near as vague and off-subject as your “hello” is, I’d say be more specific. 🙂
I typed “pleasantville”, restricted it to the FCP forums, selected 2006 to Today, and in the 1st couple of dozen posts, Pleasantville popped up.”

[Jeremy Garchow] “Don’t be sorry. People are increasingly hostile on this forum.
If you questions are basic, you will find much more friendly advice on the Final Cut Basic forum:
https://forums.creativecow.net/viewforum/200
Start there first and if you aren’t getting answers come back over here to the rabid pack of wolves that are the FCP ‘Professionals’.
Sorry you felt that way. The people who got mad at you sometimes forget where they came from.
“

[Winston A. Cely] “I totally understand where you’re coming from. A lot of times, “noobie” questions are asked quite often and many of the regulars here can get tired of answering the same questions over and over again, and sometimes they might come off as a little out of sorts. Don’t let it get you down too much. They’re trying their best (and doing a great job 99.9% of the time) to keep everyone happy.

I’ve got two suggestions for the future that’ll save you and the others here time and energy and get us moving onward and upward. Try searching here first. Think of any term you can think of, use the Help in FCP or the actual books that came with it, and at least get the terms as close to the actual thing as possible. Not only will this help with questions asked here, but many times you’ll get your answer before you ask, or lead you down an even better road! Second, come here and read all the posts you can stand. Or at least the ones you’re curious about. I make it a point to read the post I have questions about first, the posts where I might be able to help next, and the other last. I don’t get to everything, but there’s been so many things I’ve learned just by reading these posts, without even posing the question! 🙂
“

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Ed Dooley] “As a Media 100 version 1.0 user, it was critical to have a forum. We were all learning at the same time. Marianna at M100 was on the AOL forum with us every single day, 7 days a week. We were all newbies, there weren’t resources like the COW.”

Hey, that’s cool. Disagree, but this is my point. Greg is new, just because someone is not a newbie anymore doesn’t mean you get to be mean to the newbies. Just because the cow has been around for a while doesn’t mean that new users can’t ask questions. Just because FCP has been around for a while doesn’t mean that when you sit down to it you learn by osmosis. Greg can’t understand the manual, but he can understand the Cow. If the mundane posts bother people, please don’t read them and at least don’t respond to them. What’s the big deal? There’s a language barrier that’s also at play here, for which I think you are giving no credit to at all. Imagine that the FCP manual was localized in a language that you don’t understand but you knew enough conversational words of that language to post to the cow. What would you do? Not post? I don’t think so. He said the cow is all he’s got, let him use it however he needs to is all I’m saying.

[Ed Dooley]

My point is that the FCP basics forum was created specifically for the newbie basic questions, and the Search engine as a repository of the combined wisdom of the COW. People should learn how to use them, and should be encouraged to. And Greg is a shining example of someone who doesn’t yet know how to post in a forum. His subjects say things like “Thanks” or “Help”, etc. To say “don’t read the mundane posts” is a little difficult since you don’t know if they’re mundane until you read them. 🙂
As for the language issue, your dressing down (slightly) of Andreas’s response to Greg didn’t seem to take Andreas’ english skills in account, and was made after he already said maybe he should have been more “politefull” and apologized. Lightening up works both ways. The gentle nudges to Greg to Google or do a search were very mild, and meant to be helpful. You and I, and a bunch of other people spend a lot of time helping people with FCP when we know the answer (and asking for help when we need it), and there’s a huge amount of archived info. The bigger service is to show people how to access all that info. I think in Greg’s case the overreaction was in taking at face value his claim that he “received some messages from some people which weren’t pleasant”. My original point was that all he’s received in this forum was help. No one was nasty or dismissive. Even Andreas’ response was intended to be helpful, not nasty:

>>>Have you even seen in your Final Cut if its possible?
Effects tab, under perspective you find “mirror” effect.
or search for it in the effects tab-> apple +F -> type in “mirror”

or do a Goole search before you post next time…

better luck next time.
Andreas <<<< We can still disagree, but be thankful we're not all Zelinists. 🙂 Ed [Jeremy Garchow] “Hey, that’s cool. Disagree, but this is my point. Greg is new, just because someone is not a newbie anymore doesn’t mean you get to be mean to the newbies. Just because the cow has been around for a while doesn’t mean that new users can’t ask questions. Just because FCP has been around for a while doesn’t mean that when you sit down to it you learn by osmosis. Greg can’t understand the manual, but he can understand the Cow. If the mundane posts bother people, please don’t read them and at least don’t respond to them. What’s the big deal? There’s a language barrier that’s also at play here, for which I think you are giving no credit to at all. Imagine that the FCP manual was localized in a language that you don’t understand but you knew enough conversational words of that language to post to the cow. What would you do? Not post? I don’t think so. He said the cow is all he’s got, let him use it however he needs to is all I’m saying.
“

[Shiloh Heyman]

Hi Greg,

I am a noob myself, and I get allot of help here at the cow. I like to return the favor when I can. I hope I was able to help on your last post. If you hate the way the FCP manual was written as I do, I would recommend watching some video tutorials. Lynda.com has a wonderful online subscription training program and it is cheap. Total training is another great resource.

[Ed Dooley]

I don’t know why, but it seems like every manual from a developer lacks basic, straightforward start-to-finish guidance. I’ve found that for a lot of video/graphics programs, the books from Peachpit Press are the best.
https://www.peachpit.com/index.aspx
And as much as I think of the “……for Dummies” series as part of the dumbing down of America, their Photoshop and Final Cut Pro books really do have good basic beginners info.
Ed

[Shiloh Heyman] “I am a noob myself, and I get allot of help here at the cow. I like to return the favor when I can. I hope I was able to help on your last post. If you hate the way the FCP manual was written as I do, I would recommend watching some video tutorials. Lynda.com has a wonderful online subscription training program and it is cheap. Total training is another great res”

[Zane Barker]

[Ed Dooley] “My point is that the FCP basics forum was created specifically for the newbie basic questions, and the Search engine as a repository of the combined wisdom of the COW. People should learn how to use them, and should be encouraged to.”

I completely agree, I have made the suggestion to the Cow before that when you go to make a new post, it should ask/remind you to search the forums before even letting you write your question, That alone would save a lot of needless posts on topics that come up at least once a week.

The Cow can also tell if you are a new at posting on the forums (it tell you your post will be screened before posting the first couple of times you post, so it knows). Why not also add a message to new people posting about using descriptive subject lines. For example looking at Greg’s posting history he uses subjects like help, or please help. I do not mean to pic on Greg at all, many other people use the same subject lines.

I love the Cow, I just think a few simple design changes would do a lot to educate those new to the pasture.

Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity!

[Winston A. cely]

Ed,

I agree with you and thought I was essentially giving the same advise you do; i.e. look it up (search) first and try to figure it out for yourself before coming here to ask a repetitive question. I agree that it’s very frustrating seeing the same questions constantly asked, but I’ve also noted that typically the forum leaders and other long time users tend to avoid those questions like the plague, and leave it for the other forum users to answer. And as well they should! I think that’s a perfectly acceptable way a forum should work.

Also, I had forgotten about the FCP Basics forum, and agree that’s the place to go first for new users.

Cheers,
Stone

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

“If God could do the tricks we can do, He’d be a happy Man.” – Peter O’Toole – “The Stuntman”

Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe

[Winston A. cely]

I love the Peachpit Press books! Those are the books that helped me the most when I first started FCP and Photoshop.

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

“If God could do the tricks we can do, He’d be a happy Man.” – Peter O’Toole – “The Stuntman”

Mac Pro 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 5.1.4 | Aja Kona LHe